Much to my surprise it would appear the USA is opening up diplomatic avenues with Iran
I think this is superb news and have to confess I had given up hope of any constructive moves in the region while Bush was incumbent. If this starts going in a direction towards bilateral relations and real talks then I think that could be the start of something fundamentally good from a presidency that has otherwise been a disaster for world peace.
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U.S. to reopen diplomatic relations with Iran
Finally, a sensible move from the presidency
or am I just being naively optimistic . ...
Strange that Iran is doing this as well - considering the test firing of those missiles last week.
Maybe Bush is doing a "Thatcher" and secret talks have been going on with Iran all this time while he rattles his sabre in public
I would not be in disagreement with that speculation either...
Or his advisers told him to do just one good thing in his 8 years of warmongering, pillage and rape
or maybe it was Iran that put out feelers first. The Supreme Leader is known to be unhappy with Ahmedinejad's brinkmanship and had previously authorised Khatami's attempted (but rebuffed) diplomatic contacts with the USA. All the same, whoever started it, if it does lead to dialogue it has to be a good thing.
It's a repeat of his North Korea Policy;
1. They were part of the "axis of evil", the US would not talk until they abandoned their nuclear program.
2. They launch a missile capable of carrying a warhead.
3. US response - "we're listening, what do you want".
Lesson: lap dog yelps, Texas Bull backs off
1. They were part of the "axis of evil", the US would not talk until they abandoned their nuclear program.
2. They launch a missile capable of carrying a warhead.
3. US response - "we're listening, what do you want".
Lesson: lap dog yelps, Texas Bull backs off
It's fun watching the impotent Europeans scratch their beards over things they know nothing about.
well I'm bloody glad this is happening rather than another disastrous attempt at regime change.
QUOTE (SlowCal @ Jul 19 2008, 8:46 am) 
It's fun watching the impotent Europeans scratch their beards over things they know nothing about.
And Americans have a great reputation for cultural understanding and diplomacy? Pull yer head out yer ass.
Condi has stated that Iran would have to suspend enrichment prior to any negotiations. Reminiscent of the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.
Basically, the US appears to be "negotiating" and seeking the peaceful route (Even though bombs are being loaded on to planes as we speak), however in order to "negotiate" with the US, Iran would need to bow to the very demands the US want's to negotiate for, it's kind of like a mugger saying give me your wallet and we'll sit down and talk about me taking it. Not complying with this ludicrous demand would make Iran out to be the bad guy and the one who doesn't want to negotiate peacefully. A clever tactic.
Le's not forget, that under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has a legal right (recognized by the US Government), to build nuclear power plants and to make fuel rods for them, until now NOBODY has produced an iota of evidence to prove that Iran is doing anything other than that.
Russia has stated that ANY attack on Iran will be seen as an attack on Russia itself, entering Iran would constitute the biggest blunder the US administration could make right now with an already overstretched military.
Basically, the US appears to be "negotiating" and seeking the peaceful route (Even though bombs are being loaded on to planes as we speak), however in order to "negotiate" with the US, Iran would need to bow to the very demands the US want's to negotiate for, it's kind of like a mugger saying give me your wallet and we'll sit down and talk about me taking it. Not complying with this ludicrous demand would make Iran out to be the bad guy and the one who doesn't want to negotiate peacefully. A clever tactic.
Le's not forget, that under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has a legal right (recognized by the US Government), to build nuclear power plants and to make fuel rods for them, until now NOBODY has produced an iota of evidence to prove that Iran is doing anything other than that.
Russia has stated that ANY attack on Iran will be seen as an attack on Russia itself, entering Iran would constitute the biggest blunder the US administration could make right now with an already overstretched military.
QUOTE (djgrazy @ Jul 21 2008, 11:12 am)
Condi has stated that Iran would have to suspend enrichment prior to any negotiations. Reminiscent of the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.
Basically, the US appears to be "negotiating" and seeking the peaceful route (Even though bombs are being loaded on to planes as we speak), however in order to "negotiate" with the US, Iran would need to bow to the very demands the US want's to negotiate for, it's kind of like a mugger saying give me your wallet and we'll sit down and talk about me taking it. Not complying with this ludicrous demand would make Iran out to be the bad guy and the one who doesn't want to negotiate peacefully. A clever tactic.
Le's not forget, that under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has a legal right (recognized by the US Government), to build nuclear power plants and to make fuel rods for them, until now NOBODY has produced an iota of evidence to prove that Iran is doing anything other than that.
Russia has stated that ANY attack on Iran will be seen as an attack on Russia itself, entering Iran would constitute the biggest blunder the US administration could make right now with an already overstretched military.
Basically, the US appears to be "negotiating" and seeking the peaceful route (Even though bombs are being loaded on to planes as we speak), however in order to "negotiate" with the US, Iran would need to bow to the very demands the US want's to negotiate for, it's kind of like a mugger saying give me your wallet and we'll sit down and talk about me taking it. Not complying with this ludicrous demand would make Iran out to be the bad guy and the one who doesn't want to negotiate peacefully. A clever tactic.
Le's not forget, that under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has a legal right (recognized by the US Government), to build nuclear power plants and to make fuel rods for them, until now NOBODY has produced an iota of evidence to prove that Iran is doing anything other than that.
Russia has stated that ANY attack on Iran will be seen as an attack on Russia itself, entering Iran would constitute the biggest blunder the US administration could make right now with an already overstretched military.
Not sure if it makes sense to even bother responding to the pure rubbish posted by djgrazy, but:
QUOTE
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sc8928.doc.htm
SECURITY COUNCIL IMPOSES SANCTIONS ON IRAN FOR FAILURE TO HALT
URANIUM ENRICHMENT, UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTING RESOLUTION 1737 (2006)
Measures Will Be Lifted if Iran Suspends Suspect Activities;
Report Due from Atomic Energy Agency on Compliance within 60 Days
SECURITY COUNCIL IMPOSES SANCTIONS ON IRAN FOR FAILURE TO HALT
URANIUM ENRICHMENT, UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTING RESOLUTION 1737 (2006)
Measures Will Be Lifted if Iran Suspends Suspect Activities;
Report Due from Atomic Energy Agency on Compliance within 60 Days
"Bombs being loaded on planes as we speak" is complete rubbish.
As for "Russia has stated that ANY attack on Iran will be seen as an attack on Russia itself"- that sounds, to put it politely, unrealistic to me, thus I doubt that they would say it.
Ever read up on the NIE report issued earlier this year? The one that dealt a heavy blow to Bush et al?
Getting feelings of De javu here, just one letter has changed in the "threats name".
As for bombs not being loaded onto planes, you are seriously having a laugh if you don't think that Israel and the US are preparing this attack as we speak. Just waiting for the "justification" (which will more than likely involve the "missing nuke" from last year being resprayed with Iranian letters and dropped somewhere high over the states).
Putin has stated that Russia will view an attck on Iran as an attack on itself
LINK
LINK
LINK
Getting feelings of De javu here, just one letter has changed in the "threats name".
As for bombs not being loaded onto planes, you are seriously having a laugh if you don't think that Israel and the US are preparing this attack as we speak. Just waiting for the "justification" (which will more than likely involve the "missing nuke" from last year being resprayed with Iranian letters and dropped somewhere high over the states).
Putin has stated that Russia will view an attck on Iran as an attack on itself
LINK
LINK
LINK
QUOTE (SlowCal @ Jul 19 2008, 8:46 am)
It's fun watching the impotent Europeans scratch their beards over things they know nothing about.
Wow, a dig at our reproductive sytsems and intelligence in one sentence.
djgrazy, where do you get this guff from?
I am no lapdog of US foreign policy but even I can see this is a very positive move by the USA
I am no lapdog of US foreign policy but even I can see this is a very positive move by the USA
QUOTE (djgrazy @ Jul 21 2008, 12:02 pm)
Aw come on. All the links use the same quote, from an unnamed source. It's not a direct statement or corroborated by anyone from a reputable source. Absolute bullshit. And Planes don't get loaded with ordnace until an attack is a go. Watch better movies.
Of course they all refer to the same quote, he's only said it publicly once. Putin made the comment during his visit to tehran, it was widely reported but somehow avoided by the Wests' mainstream media, I wonder why the Neocons wouldn't want us to know that the Russkies are NOT taking their side.
Russia has economic and geopolitical motives to protect Iran. Russia recently signed an energy deal through Gazprom to ensure it's energy resources, do you really think they'll sit by and watch the Neocons attempt to overthrow ANOTHER country illeagaly? A country they have very close ties to?
Ignorance is bliss but you guys are moronic.
And how can this be seen as a good move?
Let's assume...
I have a big gun
You have several big guns
I want to keep my gun
You would like to disarm me
You suggest I give you my gun and we'll talk about where to go with this
I hand over my gun
no need to discuss anything anymore, you've achieved your goal
Russia has economic and geopolitical motives to protect Iran. Russia recently signed an energy deal through Gazprom to ensure it's energy resources, do you really think they'll sit by and watch the Neocons attempt to overthrow ANOTHER country illeagaly? A country they have very close ties to?
Ignorance is bliss but you guys are moronic.
And how can this be seen as a good move?
Let's assume...
I have a big gun
You have several big guns
I want to keep my gun
You would like to disarm me
You suggest I give you my gun and we'll talk about where to go with this
I hand over my gun
no need to discuss anything anymore, you've achieved your goal
for djgrazy (from Cautionary Tales by Hillaire Belloc):
QUOTE
MATILDA - WHO TOLD LIES, AND WAS BURNED TO DEATH
MATILDA told such Dreadful Lies,
It made one Gasp and Stretch one's Eyes;
Her Aunt, who, from her Earliest Youth,
Had kept a Strict Regard for Truth,
Attempted to Believe Matilda:
The effort very nearly killed her,
And would have done so, had not She
Discovered this Infirmity.
For once, towards the Close of Day,
Matilda, growing tired of play,
And finding she was left alone,
Went tiptoe to the Telephone
And summoned the Immediate Aid
Of London's Noble Fire-Brigade.
Within an hour the Gallant Band
Were pouring in on every hand,
From Putney, Hackney Downs, and Bow.
With Courage high and Hearts a-glow,
They galloped, roaring through the Town,
'Matilda's House is Burning Down!'
Inspired by British Cheers and Loud
Proceeding from the Frenzied Crowd,
They ran their ladders through a score
Of windows on the Ball Room Floor;
And took Peculiar Pains to Souse
The Pictures up and down the House,
Until Matilda's Aunt succeeded
In showing them they were not needed;
And even then she had to pay
To get the Men to go away!
It happened that a few Weeks later
Her Aunt was off to the Theatre
To see that Interesting Play
The Second Mrs. Tanqueray.
She had refused to take her Niece
To hear this Entertaining Piece:
A Deprivation Just and Wise
To Punish her for Telling Lies.
That Night a Fire did break out--
You should have heard Matilda Shout!
You should have heard her Scream and Bawl,
And throw the window up and call
To People passing in the Street--
(The rapidly increasing Heat
Encouraging her to obtain
Their confidence) -- but all in vain!
For every time she shouted 'Fire!'
They only answered 'Little Liar!'
And therefore when her Aunt returned,
Matilda, and the House, were Burned.
MATILDA told such Dreadful Lies,
It made one Gasp and Stretch one's Eyes;
Her Aunt, who, from her Earliest Youth,
Had kept a Strict Regard for Truth,
Attempted to Believe Matilda:
The effort very nearly killed her,
And would have done so, had not She
Discovered this Infirmity.
For once, towards the Close of Day,
Matilda, growing tired of play,
And finding she was left alone,
Went tiptoe to the Telephone
And summoned the Immediate Aid
Of London's Noble Fire-Brigade.
Within an hour the Gallant Band
Were pouring in on every hand,
From Putney, Hackney Downs, and Bow.
With Courage high and Hearts a-glow,
They galloped, roaring through the Town,
'Matilda's House is Burning Down!'
Inspired by British Cheers and Loud
Proceeding from the Frenzied Crowd,
They ran their ladders through a score
Of windows on the Ball Room Floor;
And took Peculiar Pains to Souse
The Pictures up and down the House,
Until Matilda's Aunt succeeded
In showing them they were not needed;
And even then she had to pay
To get the Men to go away!
It happened that a few Weeks later
Her Aunt was off to the Theatre
To see that Interesting Play
The Second Mrs. Tanqueray.
She had refused to take her Niece
To hear this Entertaining Piece:
A Deprivation Just and Wise
To Punish her for Telling Lies.
That Night a Fire did break out--
You should have heard Matilda Shout!
You should have heard her Scream and Bawl,
And throw the window up and call
To People passing in the Street--
(The rapidly increasing Heat
Encouraging her to obtain
Their confidence) -- but all in vain!
For every time she shouted 'Fire!'
They only answered 'Little Liar!'
And therefore when her Aunt returned,
Matilda, and the House, were Burned.
Sorry don't do poems, poetry is for fags.
For another view on this matter:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1216599293...in_commentaries
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1216599293...in_commentaries
The military options are not that promising and the consequences potentially very damaging to US interests.
Considering one of the presidential candidates has staked his reputation on the Iraq situation getting better and Iran being a Shia country, domestic politics may also be playing its part in the apparent change in approach.
Considering one of the presidential candidates has staked his reputation on the Iraq situation getting better and Iran being a Shia country, domestic politics may also be playing its part in the apparent change in approach.
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