Rude work colleagues, is this normal in Germany?

Are most Germans in the work place pedantic, sniffy, rude, stuck up and unfriendly or what?

This is the norm, although in the East people seem a bit friendlier IMHO.

I live in the East and used to work in the West. There's no difference. The Ossis have chips on their shoulders because they're mostly from poor circumstances and the Wessis tend to be arrogant and smug.

I have been working in the west side of Germany for over 2 1/2 years and the colleagues are mmostly indifferent.
I have not really had any meaningful discussions with most of them, and to be quite honest I do not care.
Stopped going to the cantine loooong time ago due to the circumstances, they all eat super fast, talk through you to the other colleagues in German like you do not exist.
And lastly, they finish their food and start looking at you, like "hey are you going to finish anytime soon?"
Because they want to be polite and not leave the table while you are eating.

To be fair though I have made couple of good friendships out of colleagues and that is with an east German, and one West German.

Post your picture. Might explain things.

@ garibaldi: Was this directed to me? hahaha, quite funny but it is not due to that.
They also gave the same treatment to another foreign colleague in the department, I guess as long as they are consistent, then no worries!!

I don't think they're any more pedantic, sniffy, rude, stuck up, and unfriendly people in the German work place than there are right here on TT.

Lavender Rain,

Perhaps it is something in the water, as you know people are the product of their environment.
So we might be turning slowly the same way .... That is a horrible idea, I always said:

I do not wish to change the Germans, or anyone for that matter, I just do not want them to change me!

Having worked in German offices for 25 years before joining an American office all I can say is that my German co-workers and I always got along fine together, sometimes did afterwork things like spontaneous Biergarten shifts and were never, ever rude to each other. I have kept one or two of these co-workers as close friends after leaving the office. It must be this new generation - What do they teach them at school?
*shakes graying head and reaches for her magnesium/zinc/vitamin C cocktail*

Exactly my experience with German workplace canteens too - in both east and west. I worked at one office where there was a Spanish guy, who had lived several years in Germany. He never used to go and eat with his German colleagues because of their wolfing down the meals so fast, he found it uncivilised and unnecessary. The foods horrible in any case, its mostly schweine-dies or schnitzel-das. I always go out to eat. And I need the break from the office/work environment and my "Mahlzeit" obsessed colleagues, so eating out for lunch serves many purposes.

The atmosphere might have become worse in many workplaces over the last years, due to a greater work load (as a consequence of downsizing) and people feeling insecure about their jobs, which makes them less inclined to be friendly and helpful towards colleagues.

Incidentally, I read an article about similar observations in the U.S.: "Desk rage spoils workplace for many Americans", July 10th 2008, Reuters. I really wonder if this is more than a subjective impression?

at present I have one Bavarian and one Bavarian/American working for me. they are both an utter delight to work with: amusing, polite, funny and warm.

However, my first employee here in munich was from the North and was constantly unpleasant. ostensibly this was becuse of chronic back pain but her constant rudeness, overcritical attitudes and general meanness meant we were very relieved when she tendered her resignation.

However, I wouldn't draw too many concludions from that. i have met some cracking people from the North and some utter bastartds from the south

In the end, Germany does not strike me as very different from England: there are utter c*nts AND dream work colleagues from every region in England in equal measure in my experiene

I think Germans (and plenty of other Europeans) lack the fake courtesy that Americans have. I think this shines through on so many occasions, so I would guess the office is no exception.

I've made the same experience, but mostly its women who are rude and bitchy. The problem is that I'm too polite to snap back at them to make them shut up, so I just get frustrated!

They also lack the forced politeness and hidden venom of the British. Personally I find being ignored if that person has no interest in talking to me refreshing...when they want to talk to you they are truly enthusiastic as a result.

I dont think its "fake courtesy" when you treat your co-workers with respect, it's plain courtesy.

That's funny, USCTrojan. I was thinking the exact same thing. I guess it's cultural, but I'd much rather work in an office where people are polite to each other. I also like when store clerks smile and hand me my change, rather than dumping it in a dish on the counter. I think politeness can promote a more pleasant environment. I never really saw it as "fake" but I have heard that comment from a lot of Europeans (not just Germans), so I can only assume it's a cultural difference and try to let it go.

Often yes. Advice? Seek the exceptions.

Yup, I agree. What is really weird is that German offices of American companies who employ Germans have a completely German culture as well.

I feel like in TT some people use every opportunity to bash Americans, even if a topic isn't related to the US at all!

You can't change people's behavior, you can only change how you chose to respond to it.

A middle age german man stuck up a conversation with me on my train to Berlin the other day and I mentioned the asshole that didn't want me to sit beside him (see the vent thread). This man told me there's something about the culture here that people will try to push and keep trying to push you to a limit where you want to respond in a way that's angry and hostile, especially they will try to push you if you are a foreigner he said.

Btw, If I can digress, I just have to say this while it's on my mind. Berlin has the best looking middle-age men I've seen any where in Europe.

That's strange, cos reading through this thread I'd have thought it's the other way round...
Keep up the good work, Trojan

hmm, well I'm from Scotland and consider it common courtesy to meet my colleagues with a smile and how do every morning, to encourage those people who work with me and keep the atmosphere in the office as light and humorous as possible within reason.

Soit can't just be an American thing. in fact I have worked for some Americans (particularly from New York) who were the very opposite of courteous.

Don´t be insecure.

Nowhere did I bash Americans.
Infact, I love dealing with them, and I think Europeans can learn alot from what I referred to as fake courtesy.
It might very well be real, but it often seems fake to us because if we would do it, we would have to pretend that we care about how you are. But please, accept my apologies about referring to your courtesy as fake.

I´m never rude to my colleges, and they are rarely ever rude to me. But I guess I could come off as rude to an American, because I´m not always that enthusiastic, smiling, asking how they are, e.t.c...While my behaviour might appear rude to you, keep in mind that none of the other co-workers (assuming they are natives) are likely to feel the same way. Courtesy being one of the subjects it should be safe to treat with some relativism, I think it´s proper to ask if the rudeness you experience is real, or percieved.

I don't have to 'pretend' I care. I genuinely like my colleagues so it comes naturally

I do agree to this, but in my experience Americans are way more polite in general. It´s on a different level, New York being the obvious exception.
And I feel that the large amount of TTers complaing about impolite Germans give my anecdotal evidence a rock solid foundation.

And of course I care about my colleges too, well some of them at least

Well on any given day you never know what challenges a person may be going though or dealing with and that's why I like to give people the benefit of the doubt with their behavior to a certain extent.

My philosphy is I like to keep a clear delination between my professional and personal life. I don't go to work to make friends and I don't want any friends at work. I treat everyone cordial and leave it at that. I give them the greeting of the day as that's the lowest level of humanity and I don't do the phony "how you doing"? bit. I also stay out of gossip and I don't play any games.

There's a very old saying "familiarity breeds contempt" I know there's some truth in this statement.

At my jobs so far (granted, I don't have that much working experience), my co-workers were generally very nice.

I like to keep clear of em all.They are all self centred and seem to know everything better.So when they cannot get something right and of course the machines not working properly then i just do it get it right and walk along with a smug smile on my face.

My colleagues, all German, are really friendly. They often arrange trips to beergartens straight after work; I've met a couple at the weekend for beers and food. Two of them have asked to cycle to the office with me as I've found a couple of nice routes.

They eat stupidly fast in the canteen, apart from one guy who always has huge mounds of food. However, they all tell me not to rush and eat fast, and that they are happy to chat until I've finished. Usually, they'll all chat in English so I can join in. Sometimes they forget, but whoever's sitting closest to me then starts to translate.

How come so many people here seem to meet nothing but rude people, and yet everywhere I go in and aroung Stuttgart everyone has been really friendly? I'm scared to travel too far now. ;)

I shouldn't have posted that in this thread...the moment I read "fake" Americans it just came out like that , but was actually aimed at other things posted on TT in general. Your statement really wasn't a big deal. Sorry, if I made it sound like YOU were "bashing" Americans.

it may have something to do with the kind of people who are complaining ...

They are not rude - its just their way. You will get used to it after a while. I used to hate some of my German colleagues but once you get to know them they're lovely. I think they are just much more direct than English\Americans which can be hard to deal with sometimes. They are also a bit over formal (I know this because one time, all the non Germans got into trouble for addressing German clients by their first name instead of Frau\Herr).

My sister studied in Prague a couple of years ago, and went out for dinner one evening. Eight Germans and one Russian guy who spoke Russian, Czech and English, but no German. Every single one of the Germans, without anything being prearranged, spoke English to make sure the Russian guy could participate in the conversation. Where necessary, words or parts of a sentence were translated for those Germans who were less than fluent in English. My sister said they did that so naturally, so without thinking that they were actually surprised when the Russian guy thanked them for speaking English all evening, not only to him, but also among themselves to make sure he would not feel excluded.

Having worked with people of more than 20 different nationalities, I think you will always have really rude people among your co-workers, and really nice ones, and indifferent ones, etc., no matter what nationality they have. I've met a rude German who thought that me being receptionist meant I would do all her copying for her, a very cowardly English person who clearly thought his advantage justifies acting to everybody elses disadvatage, and some friendly-only-in-your-face Americans, etc. But for every one of them, I've met ten nice Germans, twelve cool English and fifteen really nice American people as well.

We can only speak for ourselves. As a freelancer, I've found most of my associates / clients to be terrific. I think (not sure) it can be a specific company culture - some are terrific, some are awful.

But (as one who spends a lot of time not working) I'd say that the employed population generally is far, far, nicer than the non-working one. There are rather too many not just rude but even genuinely nasty people - obviously unemployable - amongst them

I'm German and made some funny experiences when I was in NYC for the first time. When people smiled at me & asked "How do you do?", I was pretty astonished, that they were interested in me and ask me, how I feel etc. So I took the question for a real question, not a flowery phrase and told them, what happened and how I felt. Which left them pretty astonished

I think that's typical: Lots of Germans only smile to complete foreigners, people in the street & only ask, how they are etc. when they are really interested. If we are indifferent we treat people polite, but "blank", maybe that's what you mean when you speak of "rudeness". A cultural difference, just like our irritation about your friendlyness which we call "fake" because it's just polite but not reserved for special persons.

I can never understand - why is the concept of "how do you do" or "hows it going" any different to a German than asking "wie geht's"??

How often does a German (especially one you don't know) actually ask you "wie geht's"? In my experience, it's only used among friends. To a stranger you would say "Guten Tag" or "Grüß Gott" as a greeting, but not "wie geht's". In the US, "how are you?" is used as a greeting even between strangers. It's not a difference in the meaning of the phrases in English and German, it a difference of when it is used.

That's it!

Yeah...salespeople at stores here for example don't say "hallo, wie geht's" when you walk in...but in the US they say "hi, how are you".

It's weird ... when I go to work here I still say "hallo, wie geht's" and they actually give me a summary of their feelings and current events in their lives

I have the opposite experience: here in Munich they say 'Grußgott" when you enter small shops and at the till in supermarkets and Tchuß or Wiedershaun when you go. I've always found it charming compared to the silence that generally greets you back in the UK.

I have noticed that lots of Germans have acquired the habit of asking "Geht's gut?" before plunging into business talk on the phone. My usual answer is "Geht so dahin, danke".

As a German and a temporary Rückkehrer I still struggle to get used to the german rudeness again...it never stick out for me before I left, but now after 4 years in Ireland, I find it very annoying and generally think we Germans are the grumpiest and rudest nation I know. (I really ask myself atm. if I was that rude and grumpy aswell, before I left). What even more attracts my attention is that everybody is moaning about everything, all the time...

If moaning and complaining bug you then you shouldn't hang around this forum too long, silky

Exactly. I find them much more straightforward. It took a bit of getting used to (why are they so direct? why don't they smile? where's the banter?) but I realised when I got here that people would be different and didn't interpret it as being "rude". I can see why the Brits might come across as fake. It's great when people are polite and courteous, as long as they mean it. The trouble is that if it's plastered over the top of something else, people can usually tell.

Germans in the work place showcase what low EQ exemplifies. They are so incompetent socially, insecure, rude, unsophisticated and very poor communicators. No wonder ive been promoted 4 times in the last 3.5 years. Dont even get me started on their work ethic/competence

When I worked for Siemens I use to come every morn and say 'Morgen'

Hardly (if ever did a german answer) and I got a ''timid'' good morning from the odd indian there.

In the end I just became like them , came in , sat down and said Zero...and I left as they left...got up walked out...no goodnight...

I hate the 'work scene' that Siemens have ...we call it the ''die Laufbahn des Beamten''

a bunch of Beamten waiting for the Rente..thats Siemens.

jesus christ.

Which company is that? have a spot open 4 me

here#s the shit of it, that i didnt say: im leaving this company and position, as some of my good contacts and colleagues already have...obviously it does no good to be in a position that still relies on the efforts of others...many of whom are in slow motion. its stagnate...so yeah, i know 4 positions open...including mine.

Oooh, go on - start a thread. It'd be hilarious.

Anyway, rude krout colleagues. I don't really care about it all to be honest; I rarely arrive at work all full of the happiness of life, with a spring in my step, stopping to doff my proverbial cap and offer a friendly greeting to all and sunder, so if they don't either, fine by me. In fact, I find it distinctly more annoying that at any given time between 10AM and 3PM, every fucker passing you feels compelled to say mahlzeit.
I don't like it when people say "germans are not rude, they are just more direct" or "it is just their way". That's bloody semantics and euphanisms and nowt else. Call a spade a spade.

Never bought into the "Mahlzeit" crap myself. I'll say it when the locals start talking Irish

The Germans can be a bit indifferent and you get used to that. The worse race I've ever worked with are the English. They have to be the most surly, racist bunch I've come across.