Rude work colleagues, is this normal in Germany?

That wouldn't inculde any IT / website positions perchance? I'm good at slipping a firework up the proverbial and getting staff enthused with the exciting benefits of grasping the latest technological opportunities. Have laptop - will travel.

don riina and KTRIC are totally correct..."Mahlzeit"...I usually go around about 2 hours later and greet them with a big smile "Scheißzeit" as I pass by with a newspaper under my arm.

sorry, unfortunately no. In fact, company-wide (8,000), we are going to be trimming 11% of all personnel the next 6 months...IT is first due to inflated budgets and overspending.

I also didn't notice it THAT much, but after living with an Englishman for three years and being in Britain a lot, there's definitely a big difference that often makes me cringe (like people barking at the saleslady in the bakery "Ein Brötchen!!!, which always makes me be extra-extra nice to her when it's my turn...)


An American friend of me says that. She kinda likes people being more direct, she told me that's one of the things she likes about me, and I was a bit taken aback - am I too direct, rude, without me noticing?

So we discussed following case:
A very good friend of mine had a new haircut, I thought it looked absolutey horrible, making her much older and old-fashioned. So I didn't say anything. Of course she asked me how I liked it - I didn't want to lie to her (guess that's me being direct...), so I said maybe it's just that I have to get used to it, but I liked the old haircut very much which made her look breezy... Didn't say exactly that I don't like the new haircut, but of course you can read between the lines...
So - is that too direct and impolite? Typical German? Should I have said I loved it?

When they say "Mahlzeit", I don't think they mean it to be rude...

I don't like it either since my experience is that Germans will do absolutely anything to avoid giving their true feelings about ANYTHING... Unless it's their opinion of Turkish immigrants, in which case, they'll complain as loud as possible and won't care who hears it...

This has long bothered me at my current job, I've just grown to be a completely miserable person because the atmosphere is so horrible. I posted on a similar thread before about going out to lunch with all the people I used to work with at my previous employer whenever I go back home (USA). After nearly 5 years they still put together a lunch date and everyone shows up to say hi to me and share a couple hours "catching up" over lunch, and my former employer pays the bill. My employer here has never taken us out to lunch, not even after long stressful projects that required long hours and dedication... old employer took us out constantly and was billed as "team building".
I dont know anything about my coworkers here and have given up trying. Its one thing to want to keep your personal life and work life separate but it doesn't mean you need to completely alienate one another and behave like asses. In any case, they can keep this way... my old employer has offered me a chance to return and I'm taking it with open arms. Back to the "fake" good mornings and those horrible Friday lunches with the whole team, joking and talking about our weekend plans. Nice to know I will soon be able to go to a co-worker for some help or question without getting the stare of death.

Rudeness and being direct are different. You can be direct without being rude and the other way around.

As a german i must also say that the 'tone' in the workplace in the UK (where I have worked) was generally a bit friendlier. but that is not to say that I haven't made good friends at work in Germany.

I think a lot of the 'Sie' and 'Du' and hierarchies, which seem to be more rigid in Gerrmany, comes into the game as well. Also, if you call your boss 'John' rather than 'Herr Blogs' it takes a way a bit of a barrier.

Do they really? Where is the next nazi rally?

Working in general is utterly rubbish, in Germany even more so - and then the government makes sure you are really pissed off by stealing half your pay every month. Can certainly all add up to being a bit miserable.
I must admit, I do miss friday lunches back in England; go to the pub, drink a few beers, talk alot of shit, then go back to the office to do sod all for an hour before going home early. Productive? Not on friday afternoons, no - but in general terms, I think it helped alot of people to feel happier at work and do better for the other 4.5 days a week.

I quite like the 'Mahlzeit' greeting, quite jolly I think.
your 'Scheißzeit' version´s a bit childish IMO, your colleagues may be glad you're leaving soon...

And I quite agree. I don't see how greeting one's colleagues constitutes rudeness or that it should necessitate a sarcastic response.

Substitute Chinky for pub and you've just described most of my Fridays!!

I agree with you 100 % that working in general is "utterly rubbish" even if you're doing something you love to do. If you're working for someone else and have colleagues thats usually the most challenging aspect about work.

I usually don't do lunches with colleagues. I'm not about cliques or listening to a bunch of gossip.

Sadly, where i work it's considered the done thing.

Not only have you had to put up with the back stabbing and whining all morning and then you're expected to sit and smile sweetly over a bleedin Leberkas semmel with the shites.

im sure your opinion really matters, why? Oh, because you take so much time for "childish" things online...nice one...NEXT!

Yes, fine description of our "rudeness". In Faust II Mephistopheles says: "Im Deutschen lügt man, wenn man höflich ist." / "To be polite in German is to lie." Hits the mark, I think

it matters as much as yours.

*ahem* anyway, back on topic. we're quite lucky in our office, we all seem to get on. I do miss the Friday lunchtimes down the pub in England though, they were a lot of fun from what I can remember...

I would LOVE to join!!!

I quit my first job here, partly because the women's bitchy and hormonal behavior was too much for my nerves (yes, it was an almost women-only company). They didn't have a problem with me, but seeing how they were treating each other really shocked me. So depressing. And you know, at a place like that I wasn't motivated to do shit for the company.

In America ...

lol...think america is the reason why there are no nazis also the reason the device and medium you are presently using... you are welcome!

That would be the world wide web, created in CERN (european physics laboratory by a British scientist called Time Berners-Lee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee).

ahhh, novices to technology and knowlege in general. (that old Wiki is so darn reliable, huh?)

as per w3c article:

"By 1983, TCP was the standard and ARPANET began to resemble the modern Internet in many respects. The ARPANET itself was taken out of commission in 1990. Most restrictions on commercial Internet traffic ended in 1991, with the last limitations removed in 1995. For a much more complete history of the Internet, see the website of the Internet Society.

Note that the Internet and the World Wide Web are not the same thing. See also: who invented the World Wide Web?, What is the difference between the World Wide Web and the Internet? and See also Hobbes' Internet Timeline for another excellent history of the Internet which includes later important events.
...
Despite what he may have said, Al Gore did not invent the Internet. The Internet was invented in the United States during the late 1950s to the 1970s by a group of researchers and scientists at the newly formed Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) after the former Soviet Union launched Sputnik. Realizing that the United States had suffered a great technological blow by allowing the USSR to hold the first successful satellite launch, ARPA set out to create a brand new technology unlike anything that had ever been done before; and the Internet was the result of their hard work.

Although there were many people working for ARPA on the Internet project, there are five individuals who can really be credited with actually creating the Internet. Among them was J. C. R. Licklider, the head of the Information Processing Technology Office at ARPA. In his position, he thought up the idea of the Internet itself as a way of potentially unifying humans from around the United States (and the world) through a universal network.

Because Licklider's previous experience was not in actual computer programming, however, he had to recruit others in order to help create the Internet for ARPA. The obvious choice was Lawrence Roberts. Roberts went on to lead the team which would eventually develop ARPANET (the early precursor to the Internet) in 1967. He was the scientist to finally utilize the proposed method of packet switching first created by Leonard Kleinrock. The Internet still uses packet switching as its primary way of transferring data.

After several years of work, a computer at the University of California, Los Angeles, became the first computer to connect to the Internet. In time, three more computers would be connected to the Internet in 1969, leading to the start of the Internet revolution.

Despite the massive success that Lawrence Roberts had received while working at ARPA, he promptly quit his position in 1973 in order to form the world's first commercial network, known at that time as Telenet. However, in his place, he assigned Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf to continue working on the Internet at ARPA. Together, Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf worked to modify the original method of packet switching pioneered by Roberts and Kleinrock and eventually created what is now known as the TCP/IP protocols. It was at this point when ARPANET was finally changed to the more easily pronounced Internet.

"

but interestingly enough...Berners-Lee currently lives in Lexington, Massachusetts (USA) with his current wife Nancy and two children, Alice and Ben. - like many, enjoys the freedom and better lifestyle of the new world.

He left the Church of England, a religion in which he had been brought up, as a teenager just after being "confirmed" because he could not "believe in all kinds of unbelievable things." He and his family eventually found a Unitarian Universalist church while they were living in Boston. He appreciates Unitarian Universalism and hence settled in it. [14]

That is the story of the internet, not the world wide web. As the article says and you have highlighted, they are not the same thing, so I am a bit baffled as to your point.

Why oh why is it that every time I read comments from chat I keep thinking he should pack his bags and go home.

@Chat - if the USA are the only country responsible for the eradication of the Nazi's then please explain the attempted gathering of such types where I live only 3 weeks ago.

Are you saying the USA failed in this task? Given that, according to you, only the USA were involved in this I find your honest if slightly under stated comment on this failure to be refreshing.

I am using a computer, I think that was invented elsewhere and not in the USA. I am sure wiki will prove it one way or the other.

I have worked in Berlin and experienced the same rise etc in a few companies. The fact is chat, you are not being promoted as you are good at the job or the best - you are being promoted as you are there.

If you stay a little longer, as the 11% are cut you may find you get a few more rungs up the ladder.

I guess I have just been lucky, around 90% of all the German people I have worked with have been fine. Even the older ones who grew up in the old GDR have been friendly and helpful.

What I would ask yourself chat is this;

In all the problematic relationships you have here in Germany, who is the common denominator in every one of them?

Ah, people who love a country so much they don't live there. And people who hate a country so much they decide to live there.

No wonder they're grumpy and think everyone else is rude.

"the worldwide web" is only a watered device based on the internet...i assume i have to spell it out, as logic and direct facts arent as realiable as they used to be.

I would worry about anything you have to spell out, if your posts are anything to go by.

I never manage to stay out of the silliest of all silly discussions.
But I´d say we should rather thank Stalin for the eradication of Nazism.

That being said, I guess we can give the Americans some credit for avoiding a communist Europe.

1.) Dont use the word "FACT" when you have no clue of what you are talking about - nor EVIDENCE or solid conclusions to base such. You are being presumptuous...which is FACTUALLY proving your inexperience and ignorance.

2.) My promotions were based on merit, not experience. So FACT is, you are wrong. or least my last 12 quarterly reviews/raises have only been smoke up my ass.

3.) I havent problematic relationships in Germany, nor anywhere else. Again, for this presumptuous comment, you must have "filled in a lot of blanks" (i.e., your brain cells) with ??? whatever interpretation you used. I am very well liked and respected in my work places, by my colleagues, friends, family alike.

Perhaps some of the butthurt people on TT just have a hell of a time getting any humor and have huge chips on their shoulders because they keep waiting for the rest of the world to deliver something to them instead of going out and getting it...hence their hostility to those who are winners in life.

coming from someone who's IQ is most likely equal with her shoe size with a bonus of matching her daily income level...doesnt really mean much to me. LOL

Al Gore invented the Internets.

By watered down you probably mean the creation of the key technology for widespread adoption by the general public as opposed to academics, the military and researchers. Much as you'd like to imagine the Americans are the only ones who have ever done anything worthwhile in technology, it's not the case. At any rate, your clear reliance on internet sources that you have obviously just googled without actually reading or understanding them is marking you out quite clearly as a wikiexpert.

perhaps you should re-read the information posted. ahem...again, another child putting words in my mouth. do us a favor and dont interpret what others say...just listen, or in this case read. Reading between the lines will only further get you deeper into trouble.

ahhh...kids today.

One of the great things about the worldwideinterweb is being able to click on stuff to see more stuff. Like clicking a member profile and seeing the gender of a poster.

The term "chip on the shoulder" seems to be the new TT catch phrase.

hey, call em like i see em...whines like a girl, to me: is a girl.

that could be risky in a city such as Berlin...

don_riina, this is especially for you.

http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm

Or a gay

I have, and nor did I need to because unlike you I know these things without having to type it into google first. While in general I approve of people inquiring after things they don't know, I can't help but laugh at your attempt to brazen out your own ignorance.

Kids, eh? I've delivered software projects in over 10 countries, including your beloved America. Given your generally poor level of spelling and argument, I now strongly suspect you to be a teenage troll trying to come across as older and more knowledgeable than you really are.

It's okay MB, Chat_capone calls it like he sees it, and if I qualify as a girl to him them he should have no problem on the streets of Berlin. Maybe he has a thing for very large stilletos, who knows?

He told me once by PM that I must be a girl. Seems to be a fairly standard approach for him.

He must be trying to organise a FFM, but without any of that spelling or comprehension stuff.

To sum this thread up I will now quote Jean Paul Sarte from his play "No Exit".

Hell is other people.

your point is moot, even though you now protest in a rather sulky method (not something that stable, mature adults do). Are you that emotional fragile?

again, with your presumption...as you have no clue what I know, what I use google for and not...fact is, ive forgotten more than you will ever know, son. delivered software projects in 10 different countries, eh? Wow, Im sure your Ebay computer gaming sales must be skyrocketing. then again, who really cares? It still hasnt helped you look anything more than adolescent in my eyes...which is all that really matters, seeing that you are basically insignificant in life.

Again...how am I "attempt to brazen out of my own ignorance" ??? nice that a few lines later you actually write "poor level of spelling and argument"...lol...how ironic. I bet you dont get it. by the way, wassup with this grammar "I have, and nor did I need to because unlike you I know these things "???

Btw, if im just some teenaged troll, then why am I getting the best of you...as you allow yourself to be controlled. Oh, I guess you must think Im googling socializational/conditioning to understand why you are so easily manipulated, eh? LOL

Do you read the drivel you post? LOL

My spelling is fine...but sure, go hunt for typos, spend all day (i know due to your unemployable status, you have that kind of time on your hands) because when you have no other argument and you have been owned, typos and spelling are good ammunition to have, arent they? LOL, man you need a dose of the real world.

Probably the most unbelievable thing he's typed in up to now.

Thing is, he probably believes it too. . ...

I'm not sure if it's the crushing logic, the punctuation applied with the care of a sushi chef or the obvious maturity but I think I just got a little wet in my panties there.

like some old, over the hill, wrinkled typical fat drunken british unsophisticated slob would know...lol...sure puffy, when your booz and Hartz IV runs out, you will be so worth while, wont you?

After all, he is entitled to his own perceptions and ego feeding and it could just be true.