Any reason not just to stay as a "tourist"?

US citizen, speak fluent German, effectively self-employed but technically employed by a US corporation of which I am the sole shareholder, able to work anywhere with a good Internet connection.

I'd like to gradually increase the amount of time I spend in Germany up to about half the year. My wife (also a US citizen) and I want to rent or possibly buy an apartment in Berlin, possibly next year.

Is there any reason I can't do all of this, including representing my company in business transactions, without going through all the rigmarole of applying for a residence permit?
I realize I'm only allowed to stay 90 days without a visa -- are there any rules about how soon I can come back after leaving at the end of my 90 days, or how far I have to go? (Would I have to leave the Schengen zone?) Given that I'm not looking for a job here, is there any advantage to applying for residence? Is there anything I might need/want to do that would require a residence permit?

Thanks,
Michael

Hi Michael,
I'm not certain, but I believe the rule is that you can stay up to 90 days in a 180 day period. So theoretically with some planning you should be able to stay in Germany six months out of the year, I think. And yes, you do have to leave the Schengen zone. Maybe there are other options, too? Could it be possible to get a residence permit, but not a work permit? I would try calling the consulate and tell them exactly what you are trying to do and see what they say. Nobody is going to take down your name and blacklist you or anything. They might have some ideas to do this officially. Who knows...

Good luck!
M

Its not possible to get a Living permit without a job, unless you married to an EU national.
As far as working for yourself, you can do that but you must have a min. of around 30-50k Eur
in the bank to prove to the Govt. you can support yourself and pay for health insurance.

Also if you go the contractor/self employed route, you must have at least 5 or more customers
you routinely work for. You can't claim self employee if you only have 1 cust. you work for
all the time. On top of that taxes nad insurance cost can be quite high.

So bottom line. Its possible, but you have to have a lot of $ and time to go thru the system.
In the end its prob. not going to be worth the hassle. Just find a normal job, get a contract
and living/work permit.

If you want more info. use the search button above and/or checkout the German Govt. web sites.

You would be able to spend 180 days in Germany, but only in 90 day intervals. You would have to leave the Schengen zone for 90 days between the two 90 day periods. To me, that would seem like a lot to move around every three months, but it is legal.

As far as I know, it may be possible to rent an apartment without a residence/work permit. The places I've rented have never asked to see such documentation. I would reccomend speaking to a professional about how taxes would work - I don't know if you would be counted as someone still working in the US that just "happens" to be working on "vacation", or if being here half a year will require you to pay taxes here, even if you don't have the work permit to work here?

I would talk to someone who knows a bit about international tax and also to the German consulate to see what the exact laws are. After awhile, you may be able to settle down here permanently if you can find a job. It's a tricky situation you're in, but if you really want to do it, you might be able to once you're familiar with just how the law works.

Good luck.

Thanks everyone. It doesn't sound like there's any easy way to get around the 90-day limitation without taking a substantial risk. Coming to the end of my two months over here now, I'm not sure that wouldn't be enough... but of course it'd be different if my family were together and we had our own place and knew more people. Going back and forth every three months doesn't sound very appealing, though -- part of the idea was to avoid the Texas summers and German winters.

I'm not the least bit interested in getting a "job" (eww!), so the next question would be how to establish legal residence while remaining an employee of my own US company -- or its German subsidiary? From what I've been reading, it sounds like the barriers to establishing a company over here as a basis for residency are impractically high -- I don't want to employ five people, and "investing" half a million euros or whatever the threshold is would serve no business purpose even if I had the money. (Except maybe to buy a home here and lease it back to me? Hmmm...) But I've also been reading that German entrepreneurs are starting British limited companies to get around some of the restrictions on German entities and then doing business here under EU common-market rules, so maybe that would be a route I could take.

The freelance route might be less complicated. Actually I do get most of my work from a single client (in Switzerland), though, and it's a pretty comfortable arrangement for me, so I'm not sure it would make sense for me to rustle up another four or five less-well-paying clients just for the privilege of paying German taxes on my reduced income. Basically I want to make business decisions for business reasons.

Getting back to my original question, though, it sounds like the only advantage of a residence permit is being able to exceed the 90-day limit. And being able to work legally, I suppose -- I don't *think* that's an issue in my case, but at some point I should probably seek advice from a lawyer and/or Steuerberater.

Come to think of it, can anyone recommend a good lawyer who would be able to address the sort of things I've been asking about (immigration and small business)?

Any reason not just to stay as a "tourist"
How does the threat of deportation and a 5-10 year ban on entry into the EU grab you?

Do I have your attention now?

You have already been told that there is a maximum of 90 days in any (revolving) 1180-day period. Repeated trips to the KVR/Einwohnermeldeamt for additional 90-day permits will raise eyebrows and at some point they will deny your application and escort you to the airport.

Furthermore, you annihilate your "tourist" claim with the phrase "including representing my company in business transactions". Transacting business is expressly prohibited on a tourist visa.

There is no good reason for you not to apply for a residence permit if you have a company and the means to support yourself outside of Germany. Getting permission to work here? Rotsa ruck. I was a resident, married, divorced, with work permission and permanent residence for 9 years before I was finally allowed unrestricted self-employment.

You are not British; you can get an LTD but that doesn't give you residence permission here. You can shell out the cash for a lawyer or fucking pay attention to the people whom you asked who happen to live here and already know the answers.

You want to live here but don't want to pay the taxes, don't want to follow the procedures, and aren't willing to accept the responsibilities? Stay home.

woof.

Sheesh, did some illegal alien screw your girlfriend? Calm down, dude. I'm not trying to do anything illegal or immoral, in fact that's exactly why I'm asking for advice.

The German Consular Services website says that business trips are allowed under the 90-day limitations, so there's no point in latching on to the word "tourist". It's not clear to me what is or is not allowed during a "business trip". I know registering a company doesn't automatically get me residence status. Yeah, I don't want to pay more taxes or deal with more red tape than I have to, and I don't think I need to take abuse for that. I do want to follow procedures -- that's why I'm asking, get it? As for not willing to accept responsibilities, stick it up your woofer.

Give 'em enough rope...


You asked a question, and I answered it. You're unwilling to pay the costs of the system from which you'd like to benefit, something that really gets on my tits. You're looking for loopholes and ways game the system and have openly expressed your unwillingness to follow the legal path. I repeat: stay home.

woof.

I think I'm going to regret replying to this, but how do you get to the conclusion that I'm unwilling to pay the costs of a system from which I'd like to benefit? If and when I get residence here I'll pay whatever taxes are required by law. Hell, I already pay VAT on everything I buy here, with money earned legally and brought in from outside the German economy. The quotes from my messages seem to imply that you think I don't deserve to live here because I don't have half a million euros to invest--WTF???

And no, you didn't answer my question at all, you just started jumping to conclusions and spouting abuse for no discernible reason.

You don't have to pay VAT.

Really?

Ignore doggie. He thinks he's someone he's not. The fact that he had to live here nine years before he got unlimited work permits proves it. It took me five -- and I was lazy.

Get in touch with the auslaenderbehoerde and say your FREELANCE for FOREIGN clients. Don't get bogged down into the stuff about your own business and all that, it'll just cause a headache. It'll all work out.

http://www.berlin.de/labo/auslaender/dienstleistungen/

It's a steep learning curve with tax numbers and shit but it's not insurmountable.