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Warm and cold rents and Nebenkosten

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Posted

I see two different prices when searching for apartments.

 

Let's say the Kaltmiete is 500 Euros and the Warmmiete is 600 Euros; Do you pay the 600 Euros only during the winter months or something?

 

The translation is Warm Rent, which makes me think that winter has a higher price due to heating costs- but since I know nothing about how renting works in Germany, I am probably wrong.

 

Can anyone help clarify this for me?

Thanks!

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Posted

I think:

 

- Heating and other costs included in the price (warm)

- or excluded (kalt)

 

See: Apartment rental in Germany

 

My question is, if the heating of water, oven stove and the apartment is by gas, does it mean I have to pay for the gas? Or should this be provided for in the warm rent?

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Posted

In my experience, the utilities that are includes in "Warmmiete" vary from contract to contract. I've lived in a house where it was pretty much all-inclusive: electricity, water, trash, oil for the heating system. In another house, it only included electricity, water and trash. At another place, it didn't cover trash, we had to pay extra for that. Where I live now water, trash, and heating are included, but not electricity; I had to set that up on my own. So you have to ask exactly what it covers.

 

And keep in mind that the amount charged per month (Warmmiete minus Kaltmiete) is an estimate. If actually costs at the end of the year or higher or lower, you will have to pay the difference, or more rarely, get a refund.

 

AFAIK, "Warmmiete" doesn't actually have anything to do with "warmth", so it is not only related to heating and stuff like that. It's a false friend, I think.

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Posted

Sorry. Still don't understand. I'm asking about Gas, not electricity which I know is NOT covered in warmmiete. When a flat is heated NOT by gas, warmmiete usually cover the heating & warm water. But my current flat is run by gas, that's why I want to know if gas heating is included in warmmiete? My warm water is by heated by gas, same with gas stove and the Heizung (heating) in the flat.

 

BTW, there's only one Heizung unit in my apartment which means it gets fecking cold. Can I ask landlord to install more Heizung?? (It's an old-ish apartment)

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Posted

If you have a gas meter and your own boiler in the flat you will have to pay for that seperately. If you do not have your own boiler and gas meter heating and hot water will be included in your monthy bill. But be aware that is estimated and you will eventually get a top-up bill or (rarely I think) refund. One radiator doesn`t seem sufficent for a whole flat either.

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Posted

Hi I am moving to Germany in a month and it will be my first time living there.

 

an apartment I have been looking at renting quotes:

 

Kaltmiete: 650,00 EUR (zzgl. Nebenkosten)

Warmmiete: 895,00 EUR

Nebenkosten: 245,00 EUR

Heizkosten sind in Nebenkosten enthalten: Ja

 

I have talked to the agent who has told me that the nebenkosten includes heating, water and electricity.

 

However I have read in previous threads on this forum of people paying nebenkosten monthly and then having an extra bill at the end of the year?

 

can somebody explain how this works, should this be all included for 895 or is this an estimate and I may end up paying more (or less)?

 

Cheers

Greg

 

Topics merged by admin

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Posted

Yes, that is true. It is an average amount... The meters are read at the end of the year and if you are over, you pay the diff. For example, we have a similar situation, last year I think we paid an extra 90 euro. Unless take 25 baths a day and are running airconditioning year round, I wouldn't worry about it.

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Posted

The cold rent is your basic set rent per month. The nebenkosten are always an estimate, and at the end of the year your landlord will compare your actual usage costs with what you paid, and then it will be evened out. With rising energy costs, most folks end up paying extra at the end of the year because the energy they've used cost more than the monthly payments they made. You can always choose to pay a bit more monthly to make sure that you don't get hit by a larger unexpected bill afterwards, or else make sure that you save a bit extra to prepare for it.

 

You will most likely end up paying more in nebenkosten, since landlords tend to underestimate the costs to make their apartments look more appealing.

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Posted

 

Unless take 25 baths a day and are running airconditioning year round, I wouldn't worry about it.

Aircon in a Jerman flat? Never seen that advertised... :o

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Posted

 

I have talked to the agent who has told me that the nebenkosten includes heating, water and electricity.

Typically nebenkosten doesn't usually include electricity cost other than the cost of the electricity for the common areas. The nebenkosten may also include some fix cost such as insurance for the property, chimney sweeper, garbage and sewage removal, and sometimes property maintenance fees.

 

I would suggest that you have a clear breakdown of the nebenkosten so you know exactly how much you are paying for the heating and water cost and the other expenses in the nebenkosten. You are also entitled by law to see the bills the landlord is paying for the nebenkosten you pay if you are interested in seeing this information.

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Posted

Does Warmmiete always imply a monthly Warmmiete? (e.g. one twelfth of the total annual Nebenkosten/Heizung estimated costs?)

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Posted

Yes. It is a monthly add on to your base (cold/kalt) rent. But it serves just as a projection of estimated usage.

 

I have never heard of anything other then monthly. IT is then of course adjusted and the balance paid or reimbursed at the years end.

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Posted

Rent without operating costs is called Kalt Miete and you must expect to pay 3 months Kalt Miete as a security deposit (Kaution) which you should get back when you vacate the Wohnung provided you leave it in the same condition as when you moved in (usually means repainting).

 

Rent including operating costs is called Warm Miete. The term Warm can be misleading, it does not necessarily include heating and hot water. Some Wohnung have separate heating systems the cost of which is not included in the operating costs. If the heating systm is a central heating system (for the whole building) then the cost of heating and hot water is generally included in the Nebenkosten but should be shown as a separate amount.

 

Be aware Nebenkosten,with or without heating is an estimate and if it is to low you could face a hefty bill at the end of the year (Nachzahlung). Your single greatest cost apart from the rent will be the cost of heating pay particular attention to the age of the building and how well it is insulated (are the windows double insulated?).

 

The landlord is require by law to show you an energy efficiancy rating (Energieausweis) for the Wohnung or building.

 

Hope this is of help.

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Posted

A tip, best way to work out what you will pay is to see of there is a central heating boiler in the apartment (in most cases in the kitchen or bathroom) in most cases that will mean you have a gas meter, so you will be paying for your own heating, work on around 1 euro a meter to be on the safe side, and that's spread out over the year so it may cost you 1 euro per meter of the apartment per month, ok some apartments will be more energey efficent so will boilers so if it's a new instalation then the cost may be lower if it looks like something left over the cold war may cost you a lot more.

 

a tip there is before you signe the rental contract have the agent agree to have the boiler serviced, means it will run better and poss cheaper and come Febuary when the plumbers have a week waiting list to repair broken boilers you should not be on his list, ie easy in July and August not to think about how cold it will be in 6 months time..

 

More advice on www.m2-berlin.com

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Posted

Why has no one said this - shame on you TTers :D

 

Nebenkosten by its very nature is very confusing to non Germans for the simple reason that things that are normally part of the rent in any normal place (basically the cost of up keep)are charged to the tenant. As one would expect utilities are borne by the tenant. But unlike normal countries that the landlord collects the utilities on behalf of the tenant, and then to confuse things even further it's done by average billing. (Opposite to Spain where they read the meter when ever the hell they feel like it and then take a huge whack out of account without any notice. Best bill was 9E worse was almost 500E. A long long time (up to 12 months I believe) afterwards the landlord finally gets around to sending you the final bill for the whole year. At this point you either owe money or are refunded money. It should be noted that often mistakes are made and usually in the landlords favour.

 

What does Nebenkosten include?

 

Usually but not always utilities If it says in Heizkosten in Nebenkosten enthalten. As for water, TV and hydro you will have to ask, varies from place to place, but it's safe to assume that most costs are included.

 

Now this is where it gets confusing, and again I can't believe in all the years TT has been around no one has done this (in case you're wondering I'm greatly enjoying taking the piss out of all of you who keep saying "search search") :D

 

Part ll How Germans love to over engineer everything...

 

You also can be, and usually are (unless you're lucky and get a landlord like us) charged for any of the following.

 

1. Property Tax or Grundsteuer thankfully not as expensive as the UK or America usually 200-300 a year

2. Water costs (mentioned this already

3. Sewage costs (Abwasser)

4. Elevator (even if you live on the ground floor

5. Garbage and street cleaning - this ain't cheap!!!

6. Cleaning lady (stairs only) and Pest Control

7. Lawn Maintenance

8. Common area costs electricity

9. Cleaning the chimney (this is such a German thing)

10. Insurance

11. Caretaker costs

12. TV and Cable

13. Costs for common area Landry facilities

14. Misc costs, say swimming pool or what ever

 

Is your head spinning yet? I know mine is. From what I've understand this is about 50 to 75 a month. Also highly recommended is joining the renters association as there are usually problems with the annual bill, but do it before you have problems.

 

Still can't believe this has never been posted, but that's Ok I shall go down in history as the one who did

 

Edit: close but no cigar Nebenkosten Question

 

Edit nr 2: Use Google Translate

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Posted (edited)

Well it was a nice thought while it lasted :lol:

 

Should have known it would have been covered, but just didn't see it anywhere

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