Care Concept AG health insurance

48 posts in this topic

Posted

Hi all,

 

Thanks all for replying to my earlier post.

 

I asked about your opinion on Allianz´s Health insurance earlier...now what about Care Concept? Does anybody have a contract with them? Did you buy the "Care Expatriate" or the "Care Economy" insurance package for working in Germany?

 

(I come from Canada, will teach english freelance, need a health insurance before I can get the work visa)

 

Thanks

 

jtl

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Posted

Hey...cant say about Care economy... i used Care College last year...it was alright...I never had the occasion to visit the doc or the drugstore...but some of my friends used it and it was alright ( meaning ...doctors who they visited werent acting funny and stuff)...but its a private insurance...so if u r gonna be here long term u might wanna think twice about it...search for Insurance on TT and u get the works on what happens when u switch from private to public or vice versa...

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Posted

I used it for about 5 months... while I was looking for a job after I graduated. I kept extending it on a monthly basis...the first 3 months it was dirt cheap 25/month. Then when I tried to extend it after that, the guy said prices have increased to 70/month...so thats what I paid for the last 2 months. I never had a chance to use it so can't say anything about it's acceptability. The service was fairly good though...they responded reasonably quick whenever I wanted to extend.

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Posted

You can't simply compare health insurance by premium costs - at least not if you intend to stay for a while in Germany (> 1 year), that is. In order to see if you get your money's worth you need to compare the coverage in detail. It might well be that there are other health insurance options out there for you far better...

 

Try to get help/advice from an independent professional (broker) who can show you different options from German private health insurance, German insurance for incoming ExPats or International health insurances... Only thus can you get an adequate grip on the insurance issue here at hand. And, yes, as Cookieman mentiones: read the WIKI (2007 version) on health insurance here on Toytown to understand the consequences of your choice better.

 

Since you say you need health insurance for visum/residence permit: whatever insurance you chose, make sure they can offer you long-term nursing/care insurance (german: Pflegepflichtversicherung) because German authorities tend to demand this nowaydays too.

 

Cheerio

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Posted

I don't know what the German libel laws are, so i won't trash Care Concept publicly. But that doesn't mean i have anything nice to say about them. I have heard that Auslanderbehorde no longer accepts their policies, so if that's true, it's all moot.

 

got a new policy with another company, and I will be doing my best to avoid submitting a claim to them. I don't expect them to behave any differently.

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Posted

This thread is from 2008 and indeed a lot has changed ever since with regards to the legal situation in Germany.

Insurances like Care Concept can only be used for freelancers etc. if you are only here on a working holiday visa or the likes. Once you have become a true resident (which is always the case for EU citizens when they move to Germany and for all non-EU citizen if and when they have a residence permit which allows them to work) you'll need a fully comprehensive German health insurance.

Whenever you are in doubt, whether it is such an Expat insurance or an international insurance, if this insurance offers legally sufficient coverage for you as a German resident, don't rely on what they just say but get soemthing legally binding in writing. You can cut things/enquiries short by asking them if they are willing to confirm that their insurance does fully comply to the following German laws: 257 Abs. 2a SGB V and § 193 Abs. 3 Satz 1 VVG. Only if they write you a confirmation letter which explicitly says that they are fulfilling these legal requirements are their insurance plans legal tender in Germany for residents.

 

While some local Ausländeramt may still issue Visa and residence permits based on Expat insurances, it would hit you later when you need or want to switch to a fully comprehensive German public or private health insurances because they will then levy penalty backcharges on you for the entire time you were using the "wrong" insurance here in Germany.

 

If unsecure about what you can do, get a professional to help you. Several independent broker are advertising here on Toytown, they are specialized on dealing with and catering to Expats and thus best suited to find you a solution that'll work and pass the legal lacmus test.

 

Cheerio

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Posted

If you want to read up on German laws re insurance (particularly health insurance), here´s where to find the Justice Ministry´s official translation in English: www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch vvg/index.html....have fun! :D

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Posted

Sorry, forgot an underscore: should be http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_vvg/index.html

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Posted

This email string is very old...does anyone have any recent information on the very confusing health insurance question for ex-pats from the US.

 

Quickly, I need to find insurance that will be excepted for a residence and work visa, as I move to Wiesbaden. Currently, I have insurance in the US, will that suffice? Can I just show my insurance card?

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Posted

Sure you can show it but it probably will not help you.

 

Enter Health Insurance into the Search box (top-right) and contact one of the independent brokers listed there.

 

Two months = very old??

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Posted

moritz: I´ve just found out you´re a woman! Why is that relevant? If you get freelance work and have to have compulsory private health insurance (in your case, as someone who hasn´t lived in the EU in the last few years), be aware that you will require not only in- and out-patient and dental insurance but also pregnancy cover..which adds to the costs whether you intend to (or even can) get pregnant. Seriously!

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Posted

Care Concept is only a broker who provides insurance from HanseMerkur, a German insurance company. Unfortuantely, it is not a REAL health insurance, mind you, but only by law and definition a "travel health insurance". Now why is this important? It is so important because the German laws require residents to have a fully comprehensive health insurance. The insurance CareConcept offers is not one, unfortunately.

And here is where it becomes really complicated:

1. first of all, as an US citizen (or someone from a large number of other countries) you can come to Germany to get your residence permit here. To do this first step, a travel health insurance is good enough

2. once you are applying for residence permit, it is like a coin toss if your local immigration office accepts an insurance like CareConcept/Hanse-Merkur or not. Many "Ausländeramt" don't accept them anymore, some still do. In my opinion they all should because a certain subsection in the relevant law would allow this for all people with a time-limited residence permit while everyone with an unlimited residence permit (Niederlassungserlaubnis for non-EU Expats and otherwise all EU expats because they have not time limit to start with) must have a fully comprehensive health insurance

3. Now, let us assume your local immigration office actually allowed you to use CareConcept and hands out a 2-year residence permit to you. Next time when you apply for extension or if during the two years you get an employment or have other reasons to switch to a German public or private health insurance, the nightmare really starts. Because German health insurances do summarily not recognize a travel health insurance to fulfill the legal requirements for residents. Hell, not even the health insurance branch of HanseMerkur (which is a different one than the one issuing the travel health insurances for CareConcept/HanseMerkur) does recognize the HanseMerkur travel health insurance as I found out in the case of one new client lately. And if the "real" health isnurance do not recognize your travel health isnruance as sufficient, than you will be back-charged all the way back to when your residence in Germany started (first 6 months in full, rest of the months with 1/6 of a monthly premium)

 

Therefore: you can obtain a CARE-CONCEPT insurance but at your own risk. The risk being, that the immigration office may reject it or, in my opinion worse, that they don't reject it and you'll still be backcharged later with hundreds or thousands of EUR.

 

Is this just - no way. Is this fair - no way, either. But that is the current situation. Therefore I can only strongly recommend to you to get a REAL health insurance right from the beginning to escape these problems for once and all.

 

Cheerio

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Posted

Wrong Strarnberg!

 

CareConcept is accepted at all Auslander offices. I was at the Berlin office last week applying for a residence permit here and not only did the Auslander office accept CareConcept, they said that it meets every legal requirement. It is illegal for Auslander offices to have "differing" policies on ex-pat insurance. There is one universal policy on it: They accept it for visas of less than 5 years.

 

Do not believe what some people on TT say. There are a lot of brokers on here who like to scare people into buying the ultra expensive health insurance (€73 per month for Care Concept vs. €150 per month for regular insurance) so they can cash a big fat commission check at the end of the month.

 

If you have doubts about Care Concept, go to your local Auslander office. DO NOT use this forum to ask for advice on health insurance. You will only fall victim to a greedy insurance broker who wants to do the bare minimum necessary to rob you of your hard earned cash.

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Posted

Have you been to "all" Auslander offices [sic], Patrick211, and can therefore vouch that they "all" accept CareConcept? Starshollow has dealt with hundreds (if not thousands) of expats - both EU and non-EU - and certainly has more experience in this area than you do.

 

Moreover, he specifically states

 

3. Now, let us assume your local immigration office actually allowed you to use CareConcept and hands out a 2-year residence permit to you. Next time when you apply for extension or if during the two years you get an employment or have other reasons to switch to a German public or private health insurance, the nightmare really starts. Because German health insurances do summarily not recognize a travel health insurance to fulfill the legal requirements for residents. Hell, not even the health insurance branch of HanseMerkur (which is a different one than the one issuing the travel health insurances for CareConcept/HanseMerkur) does recognize the HanseMerkur travel health insurance as I found out in the case of one new client lately. And if the "real" health isnurance do not recognize your travel health isnruance as sufficient, than you will be back-charged all the way back to when your residence in Germany started (first 6 months in full, rest of the months with 1/6 of a monthly premium)

If you want to discard Starshollow's advice and risk these back charges, that's your business. But please don't disparage an established, respected member of this forum who never ceases to go out of his way to answer people's questions, even if he never sees a cent from them. He hasn't done anything to deserve your (or indeed, anyone's) contempt.

 

Thank you.

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Posted

Patrick: that is a despicable comment. First, attacking Starshollow, one of the most respected posters of any kind on

Toytown.

 

Secongly: you´re wrong. I´m another one of those " dodgy " characters - an insurance broker and I too have daily contact to expats needing visas and appropriate health insurance. I can vouch for the fact that many Ausländeramts will not accept Care Concept, in fact, I can also vouch for the fact that interpretations of the laws vary widely.

 

Just an aside, where do you grab this 150 euro premium from? Out of thin air ? Are you saying all premiums are always the same?

 

What is your REAL agenda?

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Posted

Parrick211,

 

you are wrong and you are unpolite.

Your travel healthcare is for travelling, for a stay without work, Therefore, it's alright, designed therefore.

A soon as you are picking up a job or working on your own account, it's not alright.

 

And the fat commision is just a silly assumption of yours, you know nothing about this business nor of the laws here for real.

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Posted

El Jeffo: thanks

 

Patrick111: if you don't believe me, just do about an hour's worth of research here on Toytown and you will find numerous cries for help from ExPats whose similar "ExPat" insurances have been rejected since 2009 for renewal of residence permits or for newcomers who apply now for the first time. You'll even find cases in Berlin, where the policy of the immigrations offices is indeed different from one Bezirk to the next and sometimes even within the same office/Bezirk.

 

I am the first to agree, btw, that for ExPats from outside the EU with an initialy time-limited residence permit these tariffs as offered by CareConcept, MAWISTA, BDAE etc should be allowed for those years while they are still on time-limited residence permit. But many immigrations offices don't see it that way. And the cases are numerous... but not general. And while the Ausländerrecht is a federal law and should be applied the same accross Germany, it is obviously in the realm of the states and even the cities and counties to interpret the law.

 

And they are, at the end of the day, on legal secure ground if they reject these insurances. Because they are computed like a Sachversicherung and the BAFIN does not allow insurance companies in Germany to offer health insurance as substitutive insurances (i.e. in lieu of the public health insurance) which are not computed like a "Lebensversicherung" - which is why the REAL health insurances are more expensive by the way, not because we broker like that or make them like that.

And which is why German private health insurance universally reject to accept such a travel health insurance like you seem to have signed up with as acceptable "Vorversicherung" gemäß § 193 VVG. Not even HanseMerkur health insurance company - which is different than HanseMerkur insurance company which issues the travel health insurance you have signed up with - is accepting the travel health insurance from HanseMerkur insurance as acceptable pre-insurance. And then people like you get hit with back-charges and don't understand the world and feel treated unjustly.

 

The first anyone in academics learns when studying is that one single case is not enough to construct a rule. Your personal experience in one single case may be that your travel health insurance has been accepted.. others have made the same experience and then paid back-charges later when having to move to a fully comprehensive health insurance. And again others have been rejected by the Ausländeramt. Sorry, but this is the experience from several years worth of work with what is indeed several hundreds of cases each year. And the other independent broker like John and Mike here on Toytown could tell similar war stories from the experience of their clients. Now, all three of us mentioned here are registered as independent broker (check the IHK insurance advisor register for that) which means we are liable for our advice and HAVE to find the best solution for our clients. Which is why I stopped offering these HanseMerkur travel health insurance when the new legal rammification became clear during the summer of 2009 -before that I offered them too and did so gladly.

Now, CareConcept is a multi-tied agent according to their registration and HanseMerkur TravelHealthInsurance company is a part owner of it. If you have received any information from them about their product and its use accross Germany (it sounds like it for sure) you have to understand that their role by law is not to represent the best interest of clients but the best interest of the insurance company or companies they work for. There is a huge difference in that both in qualtiy of advice and liablity for it.

 

Besides, there is also a couple of risks with the insurance you mention/have to ponder if one considers staying for longer in Germany:

1. the max duration of this contract is 5 years - you can't extend it over this period of time. If you then intend/want/need to stay in Germany you'll need to have at the very latest point in time than a fully comprehensive health insurance. If you are self-employed then, you'd be only able to enter into private German health insurances. If during those 5 years you developped any major medical problems, had some severe surgery, needed a shrink or what not, you'll find it either impossible or at least very expensive to enter into a fully comprehensive German health insurance. Seen it happen a couple of times and it ain't pretty. Of course if you KNOW for sure that you'll only stay for 2 years or so, this is not a consideration for you, but how many ExPats here on Toytown can tell stories that they intended only to stay for a short while in Germany and are now already living here for decades...

2. if you are female, you can get even pregnancy coverage with these travel health insurances- though unfortunately many younger women "forget" to sign up for this because it costs much more. Which then creates a real bad situation if they become pregnant because no private German inurance is going to accept them with coverage for the pregnancy if your are allready pregnant. Be that as it may, a fully comprehensive German health insurance has to accept your baby into the same tariff like the mother has been in (for at least 3 months before delivery) regardless of what status of health the child is with after birth, even if it would be disabled. The travel health isnurance, even if it comes with pregnancy coverage, does not offer such coverage for the baby either.... hence there is another good reason for some female Expats to consider carefully what insurance to pick.

 

So, I hope this makes this all a bit more clear. I find it strange that you ask people to disregard one of the most popular websites on the WWW for advice that is given by numerous sources here. with so many readers and participants, if I or other of the brokers you so fervently accuse of unethical business practice, would indeed constantly tell bulls... we would have been ousted since long time and vanished into the thin air of the internet and oblivation. As others have pointed out, I am writing comments and advice here on Toytown since 2006. That does not make me invulnerable to errors, granted. And the field of health insurance is one of constant change and confusion, so there is always something new to learn.

However, experience from hundreds or thousands of clients is something different and you should perhaps think before you right something as accusatory as you did based on little knowledge and obviously little research, either.

 

Cheerio

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Posted

I have care concept and got a 5 years residence permit with no problem :rolleyes: . They didn't say a word about my insurance.

this happend nov 2011

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Posted

 

I have care concept and got a 5 years residence permit with no problem .

 

Really? What type of 5 year permit did you receive? The only 5 year permit I can think of is an Aufenthaltskarte for an EU dependent.

 

Depending on why you are in Germany, Care Concept might not be acceptable and you could face problems in the future. I would strongly recommend that you get some professional advice.

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Posted

Hey guys-

 

This thread is sort of out-of-date so figured I'd update it a bit:

 

Had my appointment with the Ausländerbehörde last week and was granted a one year Aufenthaltserlaubnis (work visa) with the Care Concept Care Expatriate plan and had absolutely no problems (the entire appointment took about 20 minutes). This is not to say that it will be accepted by all of the friendly gov't employees, but figured I would mention that it worked for me despite not *technically* fulfilling every category of the health insurance rules.

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