Court wants backpayment of 15 years child support

58 posts in this topic

Posted

Hi TT'ers, wonder if you can help.

16 yrs ago I lived in Germany briefly and fathered a daughter (now 15) with a German citizen. I had to leave Germany soon after as I was at risk of deportion and I settled in UK. I am now married with 3 children here. Her German mother is married and has other children and lives in Germany). I had no contact with my daughter, in fact we have never met, I was not allowed to attend the birth. Her mother's family disowned me and claimed she was not mine. A couple of years ago I tried to make contact with her. Her mother messed me around cancelling arranged contacts and then applied for child maintenance. I took a paternity test last year to be sure as they wanted 15 yrs backdated payments.

Thing is the court wants me to pay c.E340 Euros per month plus about E30,000 for backdated maintenance. I cannot afford to pay either amount as I am on low wage here and have my family to support. My German lawyer thinks there is little point appealing the maintenance which is based on the Dusseldorfer Tabelle and is a minimum amount anyway.

I assume the judgment can be enforced abroad if necessary, but if I don't have the money, what am I to do? Dn't want to end up in jail obviously and will pay what I can.

thanks for any advice.

LearningFast

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Posted

And your then gf never asked for support when she found out she was pregnant? Can you start paying child support now?

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Posted

Perhaps get a second legal opinion. Agree completely with john above. Good luck!

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Posted

In order to learn more about how cross-border child maintenance issues are handled within Europe, you might want to check how the UK deals with such cases (see here and here).

It may be the case that the German court's power to collect arrears is limited to the portion of arrears that accrued while both parents were living in Germany. According to this UK document: "member states can only enforce arrears built up on CSA cases when both parents were resident in the UK".

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Posted

first of all - i'm sorry for your situation.

Thing is the court wants me to pay c.E340 Euros per month plus about E30,000 for backdated maintenance. I cannot afford to pay either amount as I am on low wage here and have my family to support. My German lawyer thinks there is little point appealing the maintenance which is based on the Dusseldorfer Tabelle and is a minimum amount anyway. I assume the judgment can be enforced abroad if necessary, but if I don't have the money, what am I to do? Dn't want to end up in jail obviously and will pay what I can.

you wont go to jail; but whatever you owe you may have to pay up, even if it means selling assets you have.

I know this won´t help your cause but I reckon it´s totally unfair to be forced to pay maintenance for a child you were not allowed to attend the birth of and whose family claimed she was not yours.

genetics is what matters here - otherwise so many "dads" would just sow their seeds and piss off.

the reality is, this is the price to pay for not using a condom 16 years ago - harsh, but true.

It may be the case that the German court's power to collect arrears is limited to the portion of arrears that accrued while both parents were living in Germany. According to this UK document: "member states can only enforce arrears built up on CSA cases when both parents were resident in the UK".

since the child lives in Germany, the german rules apply for maintenance - of course, they'll take into consideration your location et al - but, i doubt it'll make much difference. maybe one area that can work for you is that for the period between the birth of your first child and the birth of your second (in the new relationship); you will be set by the Dusseldorfer Tabelle; when you have more children - the table may change a little bit, as you have an obligation to look after your own kids as well.

family payments end up screwing people over - i just hope this doesn't drive you to split with your current girlfriend/wife and children and have you end up living in a cardboard box just to cover support costs.

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Posted

they have to leave you a minimum amount to live on and you do have your family to support

BINGO - that is definitely something to review, but they'll take into consideration "household" income, not just your own for sure.

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Posted

I know a case not exactly the same but would imply, if the women had filed for support when the kid was born then you would be in arrears and have to pay.

But filing now, retrospectively - would not be allowed.

I'm no where near a lawyer but this would make more sense than what happened

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Posted

Well, I understand where you´re coming from but why didn´t the mother press for money at the time? It seems ( maybe ) it was only after the father reestablished contact

I know a case not exactly the same but would imply, if the women had filed for support when the kid was born then you would be in arrears and have to pay.

But filing now, retrospectively - would not be allowed. I'm no where near a lawyer but this would make more sense than what happened

you can always file - it doesn't matter if it is from day one of one day from 18 years old - why else would he be told to make backpayments?

what works in his favour however, is that the longer she takes to file - the harder it may be to actually get the child maintenance/support due to changes in his own life (new kids, new family, new country) and the fact that there is a mandate that says in order to make payments; he needs to be able to live in the first place. it is selfish to wait it out and put pressure on him like this, if he had known he could have planned appropriately with his budget and it wouldn't be a 30,000 eur bill sitting on the table right now. in any event; he cannot afford to pay - so, they should come to an agreement. what is she going to do with 30,000 eur right now? surely isn't going to give the child any benefit.. the monthly amount would however.. maybe he can pay it off in 30 years. :)

I used to be friendly with a German guy who about 15 years or so ago was at a party...he and a woman had a few drinks and ended up having sex. They never met again though they phoned and she eventually told him she was pregnant. He was also not allowed to be at the birth or ever establish contact to the child. He had been paying for years the last time we met. A father paying but not allowed to even meet the child. This is wildly unfair. Yes, we can always argue they should have used some protection but it takes two to tango and they had both had a few drinks.

this is very unfortunate - all he can do is wait out, for when she is old enough to really want to know who her real father is. i see my daughter once a year - but, i have a spare bedroom already ready for her in Munich so when she turns 18, guess who's going to be given full fair tickets to europe and simply wont be able to resist :) that'll teach her mother for treating my visitation rights like crap over the last 16 years..

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Posted

Now I really CAN understand where you´re coming from, Ardiri! Your personal experience! Good for you that you care about your daughter - spoil her silly when she gets here!

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Posted

Before you bound off to court to declare personal insolvency, no dice!

CSA (and through that probably other EU countries') debts aren't covered. See linkage

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Posted

Now I really CAN understand where you´re coming from, Ardiri! Your personal experience! Good for you that you care about your daughter - spoil her silly when she gets here!

thats the goal! :) i've been paying much more than what the "Dusseldorf Tabell" tells me i should - but, i can and i do it for my daughter. i refused to pay for the first two years because my ex prevented any visitation rights.. and yep, i was demanded to make back payments, i was able to argue about my living situation and that i couldn't do it and as long as i started making regular payments, she would agree to waive it. but, my child was 5 years old then.. bit different in this case; but the focus should be on supporting the child, not on the mother trying to cash out.

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Posted

first of all - i'm sorry for your situation.you wont go to jail; but whatever you owe you may have to pay up, even if it means selling assets you have.genetics is what matters here - otherwise so many "dads" would just sow their seeds and piss off.the reality is, this is the price to pay for not using a condom 16 years ago - harsh, but true. since the child lives in Germany, the german rules apply for maintenance - of course, they'll take into consideration your location et al - but, i doubt it'll make much difference. maybe one area that can work for you is that for the period between the birth of your first child and the birth of your second (in the new relationship); you will be set by the Dusseldorfer Tabelle; when you have more children - the table may change a little bit, as you have an obligation to look after your own kids as well. family payments end up screwing people over - i just hope this doesn't drive you to split with your current girlfriend/wife and children and have you end up living in a cardboard box just to cover support costs.

What a piece of moralistic bs. You have legally and ethically zero idea. You've obviously been burned in the past, and are taking your frustrations out on this poor man.

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Posted

Its supposed to be uplifting when you find others in the same boat as you but I find its not, its depressing. It means I didn't happen to come across a single screwy dame, it wasn't just stupid random bad luck but that there are the makings of a pattern of behviour here of german women towards foreign men. One might cyncially say its almost a scam. Although my situation is more akin to ardiri than to john g.'s friend and learningfast, all I can say is hang in there. I can confirm that the Dusseldorf tables are intended as a guide and the court can exercise discretion (they're often too lazy to but that's where your lawyers are supposed to earn their fees). You having the means to live is paramount. Also its water under the bridge and if you have any witnesses (correspondance would be better) that you tried to be there but were repeatedly pushed away and only then did you get on with your own life I think that should count. Because if she couldn't afford the child she could have contacted you at anytime, instead when you tried to establish contact she messed around with appointments. In my case I pay more than the Tables require, because I can afford to and want the best for my child. I have some question as to whether the money really goes to the child's upkeep but I've been admonsihed that its churlish of me to expect the mother not to enhance her own lifestyle FIRST and take care of the kids needs SECOND. (Really? So easy to give a free opinion!) If only the mother were to declare that she hasn't the money to raise the child, I would put in a serious bid for full custody in a heartbeat.

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Posted

I´m sorry to hear of your predicament, Dizz! There are thousands of such cases but it´s not only here or rather German women v. foreign men. It´s probably the case in any country which has custody and maintenance laws. I know in the UK it´s a big issue, too, for example. In fact, in any area of life where break ups occur eg in business life. I would never actively work in a partnership in my current work again after what I went through a few years ago.

Different story and another day but it´s the way many humans behave when they can see a chance to earn an unfair advantage.

Good luck to you and your child. You deserve it.

Edit: Inlove etc: a golddigger? :)

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Posted

well, then always having condoms available and having the eyes wide open before u f* someone would be a great idea, isn´t it? :D

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Posted

..in an ideal world, inlove: but these things happen. That´s how I was conceived! :D ( I think!)

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Posted

well, I think a man should want to have children when he has a child :D

having a child after a one night stand is... pretty hilarious.

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