Buying a rented apartment

31 posts in this topic

Posted

Hi everyone,

 

I need some advice:

 

We found an apartment that we really love, and would possibly like to buy. It's in our budget, its nice...Here's the catch: 'there's a vermieterin' that's been in there for the past 40years :s If we would buy it, what is the minimum 'kündigungfrist' we would have to give her or where could I get that kind of information?

 

Thanks for your comments, information... :D

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Posted

She is probably on a "Pepper corn" rent too...

 

I doubt that she leave for 20K !!

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Posted

Let me reinforce whats already been said- The only chance of you getting her out is if shes planning to move anyway and would be open to an offer.

 

If you want to live there yourselves Id forget it.

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Posted

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

 

As a title say, we found few apartments already rented that are close to what we want to buy. What are the cases when we can have free the apartment, without offering tenant money to get out, if the renting contract was so-called long term without specified rent time?

On example, what if the tenant is in the apartment for 5 year of more, what if have children etc. etc. What are the conditions necessary to have to be able to expect that the tenant will leave the apartment in some reasonable time, let´s say 6 months or less?

Looking forward to the answers, thanks in advance.

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Posted

 

... we found few apartments already rented that are close to what we want to buy. What are the cases when we can have free the apartment, without offering tenant money to get out, if the renting contract was so-called long term without specified rent time?

 

None.

It would only happen if the tenant by coincidence wanted to move out himself.

Otherwise, no chance without having to pay him off to get him to agree to move out, see the posts above.

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Posted

It's probably not even worth it as an investment.

 

I saw an offer for an apartment building where none of the apartments had changed hands since 1984 - and since rents for sitting tenants can't be increased by more than a certain percentage, the rental income was pathetically small. Sure, the asking price seemed really cheap, but with maintenance costs the building was operating at a total loss.

 

In those situations, probably the landlord has been skimping on maintenance, too - so as the new owner you'd get a whole expensive 'to do' list into the bargain.

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Posted

I'm not sure if the rules are the same here but my bro, sis in law got caught in that, bought a triplex in Ontario in an estate sale, reasonable price problem was the previous owner had owned it for some 40 years and once it changed hands all grandfathering rules ended. Cost them a bloody fortune to bring it back up to code.

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Posted

There is something called "eigenbedarf" that may assist if you're planning to move into the apartment yourself. I don't know any specifics but that might be a place to start.

 

http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59973

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Posted

 

what if the tenant is in the apartment for 5 year of more... to expect that the tenant will leave the apartment in... say 6 months or less?

 

Except for limited time lettings, the minimum notice period required to revoke leases of living space is 3 months (if given by the 3rd working day of a month then effective at the end of the 2nd following month). This period is extended by a further 3 months if the tenant has held their lease for 5 years and by a further 3 months if they have done so for 8 years. In your '5 year or more' example therefore 6 months would be the minimum notice period required.

 

As others have pointed out, the rights of sitting tenants are not weakened by the sale of a property. As Binaural said there is a clause which allows for regular termination where the landlord can show their own need to live in the dwelling. However, even though that may be the case, if the tenant objects on the grounds that it would cause them a hardship (eg. they cannot easily find an equivalent flat at a similar rent in the vicinity and cannot afford to move far away) then many German courts would reject any move to obtain an eviction order against them.

 

You can read the relevant laws on leases in the English translation of the German Civil Code Termination of leases starts at Section 573 although you'd need to read a good deal more than that in order to appreciate the legal rights and responsibilities of both parties.

 

2B

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Posted

Thank you for your valuable answers. I think that rented apartment is totally out of question then. This ridiculous law must be one of the reasons why Germans don´t buy properties. I have lived for years in Italy and there the longest lease contract can be 4+4 years, where the owner of the apartment have the right to move in, if decides, after the notice period has passed.

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Posted

No, but it's the reason why in Germany rented apartments for sell are cheaper than the empty equivalent, and therefore seemingly fit the budget better. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want an apartment to live in, the simplest way is to buy it empty and pay the corresponding price.

 

The reasons why many Germans rent instead of buying are multiple and have to do with difficult access to credit for those of lower-middle class incomes and tax incentives that favour buy-to-let instead of buy-to-live, to name a few. And, of course, security that they won't easily be expelled from they rental home ;)

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Posted

A question: in Italy (again!) is possible to buy so-called naked property. This means that some, usually old person is living in the apartment and selling it, with the right to remain in the apartment for the rest of the life. The prices of such apartments are usually up to 50% less from the market value. The trick is that in the moment when you purchase apartment you became an owner, so all the repairs are to be charged to you, but if the building is good and the tenant unfortunately pretty old, you can get into apartment after few years.

Is there anything similar in Germany? It is a nice investment, even when is to wait a while to really get the apartment.

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Posted

http://www.cracked.com/article_18575_the-5-worst-deals-in-history-handshakes_p2.html

 

 

One day back in 1975, a dapper middle-aged French lawyer by the name of Andre-Francois Raffray had a devil of an idea: He sought out a 90-year-old woman named Jeanne Calment, who was currently living in a very nice apartment indeed, and offered a deal: He would pay her 2,500 francs ($500) a month for the rest of her life if, when she died, he could take over the apartment regardless of how much money had been paid in total. The benefits were obvious: Once the old lady kicked the bucket a few months later, the Frenchman would move in after paying only a fraction of the actual cost of the apartment, presumably while twirling his mustache and cackling diabolically at the foolishness of the sweet old crone.

Jeanne lived another 30+ years and died aged 122. The lawyer died before her.

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Posted

 

A question: in Italy (again!) is possible to buy so-called naked property. This means that some, usually old person is living in the apartment and selling it, with the right to remain in the apartment for the rest of the life. The prices of such apartments are usually up to 50% less from the market value. The trick is that in the moment when you purchase apartment you became an owner, so all the repairs are to be charged to you, but if the building is good and the tenant unfortunately pretty old, you can get into apartment after few years.

Is there anything similar in Germany? It is a nice investment, even when is to wait a while to really get the apartment.

 

Yes, it's called Leibrente (you agree to pay the owner some amount per month for the rest of his/her life) and there's another term if you agree that he/she can live free of charge until he/she dies, but I cannot remember it now.

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Posted

 

there's another term if you agree that he/she can live free of charge until he/she dies, but I cannot remember it now.

 

The term is "Nießbrauch".

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Posted

 

Jeanne lived another 30+ years and died aged 122. The lawyer died before her.

 

Yeah, you shouldn't gamble on how long an old person is going to live. My uncle gave in to his wife some many years ago and took in his mother in law who wanted to spend her last few years in her only daughters home. She was in her 70's at the time, he would have been in his 40's. I remember her standing in the kitchen during birthday parties, usually doing the dishes, looking quite crooked and frail. Sometimes uncle would talk about what he'd do with her room when she died.

 

She made it to age 109 and outlived him by about 3 years. In the end, she got sent to a retirement home because her daughter had gotten too frail to take care of her.

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Posted

These are fairytales, how many people actually live up to 120?? The average life expectancy is about 85 years and this is what should be taken into account. Of course, for 10 years waiting for a place anything can happen, but if the discount is 50%, it is worth a try if you can afford it. And there is a nice part of the whole deal, helping somebody to spend the last years of the life in known environment, without financial problems.

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Posted

If I am not mistaken there is also something called Vorkaufsrecht. If a Mietwohnung is changed into a Eigentumswohnung (meaning the owner agrees to sell it), the tenant has the right to wait until you have made your offer and is entitled to buy it for the price you've agreed on with the owner. And if you buy it the tenant is till a tenant, you have all the obligations that come with being a landlord and it's very unlikely you can kick out a tenant just because you want to.

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