What does "right wing" mean in Germany

153 posts in this topic

Posted

In the US I would be called a "right winger" because I want less government and I am against tax funded social programs.

To me, Germany is a basically a socialist country because of the amount of government control in the private sector as well as the existience of tax funded social welfare programs. The Nazi's were socialists. Most Germans I know equate being anti Nazi to being anti right wing. But when I talk to people here who specifically say they "Gegen Rechts", I find that they actually support socialism.

-39

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Posted

which would be logical, since "gegen Rechts" means anti right-wing

My point is that in my country being right wing means you are in favor of less government control over the private sector.

-2

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Posted

My point is that in my country being right wing means claiming you are in favor of less government control over the private sector.

FTFY

Oh, and that brings to mind two other minor points.

1: we're not in your country. 2: on both (all) continents the right wing are in favour of more private sector control over government.

2B

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Posted

The defining feature of the right wing in Germany is that they want foreigners out of the country, and that includes you.

I would say that people who are labeled as foreigners by the people who "gegen rechts" in Germany would probably not be labeled as "foreigner" in the US.

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Posted

And no, the Nazis were definitely not socialist (hint : the very first to be sent to KZs after 1933 were members of the communist party, since Hitler thought they'd be the biggest threat to his power). Nazi ideology is regarded as fascism, which is an extreme right-wing position.

I beg to differ. While your statement concerning the communists is correct, the NSDAP had a pretty strong socialist wing, at least until the Night of the Long Knives (1934), when most of them were either imprisoned or murdered. The top representatives were brothers Gregor and Otto Strasser - and, although it may sound hard to believe, Goebbels himself was initially a socialist. Ernst Röhm (head of the SA until the said night) was an ally of the Strassers, but his goals were different - while the Strassers were aiming for a working class domination, Röhm was a "military revolutionary", looking to topple the established military hierarchy (the career 'Prussian' officers) and replace them by his SA cronies.

Details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strasserism, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goebbels#Nazi_activist

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Posted

Traditionally, right wing would mean the opposite, as the first right wingers were pro-monarchy. In a wider context, most right-wing parties can be considered to be conservative, so their political views depend on what is considered traditional in that county.

Btw. the german "liberal" party is the preferred coalition partner of right-wing CDU (The term "liberal" mainly refers to economic policy here). In their understanding, the US is thus one of the most liberal countries in the western world...

And no, the Nazis were definitely not socialist (hint : the very first to be sent to KZs after 1933 were members of the communist party, since Hitler thought they'd be the biggest threat to his power). Nazi ideology is regarded as fascism, which is an extreme right-wing position.

fascism A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

2. Oppressive, dictatorial control

Are you ok with this definition? If so, then can you explain to me how I supporting fascism by

1 Being in favor of less government control over the private sector.

2 Being in favor of not giving the government money to fund socialist programs.

Does being a right winger in Gemany mean you support a "liberal" economic policy like we have in the US or are they in favor of a more restrictive economic policy?

-11

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Posted

Does being a right winger in Gemany mean you support a "liberal" economic policy like we have in the US or are they in favor of a more restrictive economic policy?

I would say both major American parties are liberal economic-wise, while the political & social conservatism/liberalism manifests itself in other area - e.g. abortion, importance of religion, foreign policy, military spending. I'd also say this comes from the very essence of the country - founded as a democracy and a market economy, relying on free enterprise and one's ability to 'make it'.

A pretty good tool is politicalcompass.org - it has a political test of your own views and then places you in a graph along many modern leaders.

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Posted

Germany has a very atypical political spectrum because of what happened in the WW2, it is quite weird, basically most people are aligned almost to the center, the major "left" wing parties are center-left very close to the center and the major "right" wing parties are center-a-bit-to-the-right. You can't say anything that is not socialist or not left enough otherwise you will be a Nazi. Real right parties (read NPD) are considered dangerous and most people think they should be banned. "Extreme" left wing parties come most of the time with dumb ideas and/or with crap that only terrorists would considered valid.

Some social programs should be re-evaluated and if necessary trimmed down and the money should be redirected to other social programs, however no one dares to even mention that because it is a political suicide to say something against such untouchable programs, politicians normally decide it is better to ignore the shit and pass the problem to the next administration.

And before you think wrong, I personally am a left wing person.

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Posted

On another note I'd like to make the point that describing Germany as a socialist country to many Germans would sound like an insult. Socialism means that private property rights are basically non-existent or at least severely disrespected (as they were in East Germany before 1989) and that individual freedoms (like e. g. that you can chose your job or leave the country if you wish so) are done away with. I don't think this can be said about Germany.

It's an insult alright.

Mostly it's more ignorance than insult though.

Also, if not believing in "survival of the fittest" or "fend for yourself or DIE" is the definition of socialism, then, well, I guess I'm fine with being a socialist. :rolleyes: I have found it almost impossible to explain the idea of societal solidarity to a conservative or "libertarian" (ugh) American. Fortunately my friends tend to be "commies" :ph34r: themselves. :D

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Posted

. Therefore the Christlich Soziale Union are Nazi(')s.

A statement like this might easily result in a courtcase against you if they decide to sue you for defamation. You better mark it as ironical.

-3

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Posted

People who think deeper than the surface don't need the irony smily.

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Posted

Maybe, but would deeper thinking people be members of the CSU?

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Posted

A statement like this might easily result in a courtcase against you if they decide to sue you for defamation. You better mark it as ironical.

Krauts like you still wouldn't get it.

-9

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