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Tax refund the basics when arriving from abroad

22 posts in this topic

Posted

hello

regarding tax refunds, i would know if i have to do that.

i have arrived 15 november, without family, so they just applied tax class I. But my family

joined me few days before the end of the year.

Obviously I have also earned a salary in my home country, for the other months, but I will

have the exact amount in March (things in Italy are slower...).

So, does it make sense to apply for a tax refund?

other questions:

-until when I can apply?

-if the work-home distance is just 5 km, is it considered?

-bus metro tickets are considered?

I am also preparing my self for the next year, they have also considered me

in class I even for these first two months of the year, because we had a problem with

tax confirmatiin letter, so next year I would also to do that, for sure.

I wanto to know what can be considered, so I will not trash the bus tickets, for example.

And where to do the tax refund?

thanks for the help

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Posted

regarding tax refunds, i would know if i have to do that.

i have arrived 15 november, without family, so they just applied tax class I. But my family

joined me few days before the end of the year.

Obviously I have also earned a salary in my home country, for the other months, but I will

have the exact amount in March (things in Italy are slower...).

So, does it make sense to apply for a tax refund?

Since you are an employee with a non-earning wife, you don't have to do a tax return.

However, since you did have moving costs (and even if you did not have a lot you can still claim the flat rate allowance Umzugspauschale), it would make sense to join a Lohnsteuerhilfeverein and to let them do a tax return for you, for details please see post no. 577 in Filing a tax return.

You will most probably get back all the income tax (Lohnsteuer) you paid in 2012.

-until when I can apply?

Since you are not one of the cases that have to submit a tax return, the deadline is within the next 7 years.

Of course it is in your own interest to apply as quickly as possible in order to get your tax refund.

However, you should know that the tax department is updating its software at the moment and they will only start processing tax returns in April, so don't worry about only knowing the exact amount in March, submitting it earlier wouldn't make any difference.

-until when I can apply?

-if the work-home distance is just 5 km, is it considered?

-bus metro tickets are considered?

I am also preparing my self for the next year, they have also considered me

in class I even for these first two months of the year, because we had a problem with

tax confirmatiin letter, so next year I would also to do that, for sure.

I wanto to know what can be considered, so I will not trash the bus tickets, for example.

In 2013 you will not have any moving costs to claim for.

All the stuff you collect to claim for, i.e.:



  1. bus tickets if you want to claim for the real costs or commuting allowance if you want to take the km-rule (about 230 days x 0.30€ x 5km = 74€)
  2. training costs,
  3. textbooks,
  4. conference fees,
  5. trips to conferences,
  6. further educations costs,
  7. and so on
will only have an effect if they are in total more than 1,000€.

Why, you ask.

Well, as an employee they automatically give you an allowance of 1,000€ a year which is considered by your employer when calculating your net salary each month.

So, unless you can collect more than 1,000€ worth of expenses, don't bother collecting all those tickets, bils, ...

And where to do the tax refund?

Either go to a Lohnsteuerhilfeverein, see Claiming tax deductions or do it yourself by following the instructions in the TT Elster wiki, yellow section.

However, since you also also had income in Italy in 2012 before moving here, you will have to fill in your Italian gross income in 2012 into the longer version of the Mantelbogen ESt 1A, into line 99 (and attach your Italian salary slips), the instructions for that form are in the turquoise section of the TT Elster wiki.

Of course this also means you won't have to fill in the shorter version of that form, the Mantelbogen ESt 1V (that is mentioned in the yellow section of the TT Elster wiki) for the 2012 tax return, you will only do so in your 2013 tax return.

All these tax forms will get sent to your local Finanzamt, that's the place you went to get your Lohnsteuerersatzbescheinigung in order to get tax class III.

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Posted

Hallo, Panda...thanks for the reply

Since you are an employee with a non-earning wife, you don't have to do a tax return.

I understand that "i have to do" if i am a self-employed, correct?

However, since you did have moving costs (and even if you did not have a lot you can still claim the flat rate allowance Umzugspauschale),

The German company has provided all the moving costs, plus a fixed refund (flat allowance). Even flighttickets for all the family.

So maybe I cannot claim anything, correct? I assume that they have already considered all in the taxes...

You will most probably get back all the income tax (Lohnsteuer) you paid in 2012.

maybe I can try in these three months to do the math...if you help me a bit

Since you are not one of the cases that have to submit a tax return, the deadline is within the next 7 years.

oh, great!

However, you should know that the tax department is updating its software at the moment and they will only start processing tax returns in April, so don't worry about only knowing the exact amount in March, submitting it earlier wouldn't make any difference.

In 2013 you will not have any moving costs to claim for.

All the stuff you collect to claim for, i.e.:

will only have an effect if they are in total more than 1,000€.

ok, all the travel trips are also refunded directly from the company (train and metro tickets)

and also conferences, books...

so even in this case, I think I cannot claim anything

except the house-office tickets, but they are less than 1k eur

All these tax forms will get sent to your local Finanzamt, that's the place you went to get your Lohnsteuerersatzbescheinigung in order to get tax class III.

yeah, even in that case my company have started the process for me...however, i can ask.

thank you

maurizio

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Posted

Between the date you moved here and the date your family joined you, you were eligible for doppelte Haushaltsführung.

This means that you are allowed a 24€ flat amount per day that you were here alone.

You say you arrived here on November 15th, and that your family only joined you just before the end of the year, that means over 30 days of this allowance.

For example, if they joined you on December 23rd, you could claim:

38 days x 24€/day = 912€

You claim for it in your Anlage N, in line 76.

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Posted

Also if you use a makler to get a place of abode you can write that off as you moved here to be closer to your job

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Posted

One question from me also about the makler fee (sorry for not posting separate thread): if one moved to Germany in 2012, got a temporary, smallish, fully-furnished apartment for 3 months, paid makler fee for getting it, and used the 3 months to look for a longer term, bigger apartment, where he moved in after the 3 months and for which makler fee was ALSO paid, can BOTH makler fees be deducted as part of the double household status? (familly joined only later, directly at the 2nd apartment).

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Posted

Yes. In fact that is the scenario used in 1. c. here.

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Posted

I also had a refund by the company for the period staying without the family, but less than 24 eur...

Maybe i can claim for the difference?

Or all these allowances given directly from the company as a contract integration are notconsidered for the tax declaration?

The company also paid the renting fee for the agent to found a house quickly...

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Posted

I assume that the daily allowance your employer gave was actually part of your taxable income, i.e. you ended up paying tax on it. If that was the case, claim for the whole 24€. If it was tax-free (which I doubt) claim for the difference.

Since they paid for the Makler, you can't claim him.

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Posted

incredibly late...but I am doing now the tax refund

The problem was to have the exact amount for the previous income in Italy.

Now I have everything and I can do the tax refund.

I will start with your wiki and the Einleitung ESt 1A...and I will return here when I will

face ...problems!

Thanks a lot

Maurizio

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Posted

first doubts:

There are some places in the tax refund that you can claim for moving costs.

This is my situation:

- The company paid a "family allowance" for the period that I was already in Germany and the rest of the family

was in Italy (in 2012)

- The company paid also for the moving costs (furniture and family) (also in 2012)

- The company also gave us a "moving allowance" as an additional money, but this was paid in 2013

You said that I could claim for these costs if they are taxed.

But:

- the third point was paid in 2013 so I will see it probably next year (but also I am not sure)

- I cannot see the costs fro 2012 in my "Ausdruck der elektonischen Lohnsteuerbescheinigung für 2012"

What I can see in this "Ausdruck der elektonischen Lohnsteuerbescheinigung für 2012" is:

Bruttoarbeiteslohn (point 3)

Einbehaltene Lohnsteuer von 3 (point 4 )

Einbehaltener Solidaritätszuschlag von 3 (point 5)

Arbeitgeberanteil - zur gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung (point 22)

Arbeitnehmeranteil - zur gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung (point 23)

Steuerfreie Arbeitgeberzuschüsse - zur gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung (point 24)

Steuerfreie Arbeitgeberzuschüsse - zur gesetzlichen Pflegeversicherung (point 24)

Arbeitnehmerbeiträge zur gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung (point 25)

Arbeitnehmerbeiträge zur sozialen Pflegeversicherung (point 26)

Arbeitnehmerbeiträge zur Arbeitslosenversicherung (point 27)

Can you explain me what are these?

Thanks a lot!

Maurizio

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Posted

The moving costs that you were reimbursed for and for which you handed over to your company the invoices you gathered will not be taxed, they are simply reimbursements.

If with the family allowance you mean tax-free 24€ a day, then you are not allowed to claim those 24€ again in your tax return in the section "doppelte Haushaltsführung".

About those terms:

  • Bruttoarbeitslohn = gross salary
    Einbehaltene Lohnsteuer von 3 = income tax on gross salary
    Einbehaltener Solidaritätszuschlag von 3 = solidarity tax on gross salary
    Arbeitgeberanteil zur gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung = employee's contribution to public pension insurance
    Arbeitnehmeranteil zur gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung = employer's contribution to public pension insurance
    Steuerfreie Arbeitgeberzuschüsse zur gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung = employer's contribution to public health insurance
    Steuerfreie Arbeitgeberzuschüsse zur gesetzlichen Pflegeversicherung = employer's contribution to public nursing insurance
    Arbeitnehmerbeiträge zur gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung = employee's contribution to public health insurance
    Arbeitnehmerbeiträge zur Pflegeversicherung = employee's contribution to public nursing insurance
    Arbeitnehmerbeiträge zur Arbeitslosenversicherung = employee's contribution to public unemployment insurance

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Posted

thanks a lot.

I almost finished.

Some remaining questions:

as far as I have understood, I should not do the N AUS because my Italian job was BEFORE coming in Germany.

But I am thinking to do it, just to include also all the information about my previous employer.

in the Anlage N, point 5, they ask me the tax class.

When I arrived here, I was in class 1, because my wife was not arrived yet.

Then, in 2013, the updated me in class 3.

So, should I write class 1 or 3 ? in 2012 I was supposed to be class 1, in 2013 class 3...

Thanks!

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Posted

You must be the first person ever who wants to voluntarily fill in a long tax form...

In earnest, just fill in your gross Italian income into line 99 of 4-page Mantelbogen ESt1A and that's it.

Put in the tax class that you started that year in into Anlage N, it is anyway unimportant, tax classes are not used when calculating your final tax burden.

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Posted

ummm now it is almost two months that I did the tax return

and nothing happened

what is the expected timescale?

another question

the eventual money in return will go directly to the bank account? will I have some communications?

the payment will be done through the company or directly?

Being the first time, I do not know what to expect

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Posted

Two months is still within the normal time frame.

But I hope you didn't forget to print out summary of your tax return, sign it and hand it in by snail mail/in person at the Finanzamt?

If you forgot and only sent it electronically (without a digital signature) then they won't process it until they have the signed paper summary.

When they have finished, you get a letter by snail mail to your adress, telling you how much they will reimburse and the next day you will see the money in your bank account.

The Finanzamt transfers directly, there is no intermediary.

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Posted

I went directly to the Finanzamt, with the printed tax return!

I like very much this "German" thing...in Italy you cannot deliver your tax return directly,

you have an intermediary for that (mandatory)...so I enjoyed very much this part!

Ok...I will wait...

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Posted

I went directly to the Finanzamt, with the printed tax return!

I like very much this "German" thing...in Italy you cannot deliver your tax return directly,

Ha ha not too many people can say they like doing taxes :lol:

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Posted

I still do not like to pay taxes...but you have to pay...so why not to organise the process in a easier way?

In Italy you have to go to a CAF (an office built from an third-part association), even if you do everything by yourself you have to pay this office, then they will send everything

to the government office. If something is wrong, or sometimes even if everything is right, the tax office send to you a letter. Then you have to return to CAF again with all the documentation.

And the tax return will be paid through your salary, otherwise (if you do not work) you have to wait years to get the money.

And I never succeeded to do a tax return by myself in Italy because too complicated.

In Germany you can do everything by yourself, then you go to the office directly, you see the people that are getting your money...you can discuss with them.

And even if the language is...impossibile...it turns out that the process is easier.

(It is also true that in Italy we do not have PandaMunich in a forum ;-) thanks for that!!)

PS the letter arrived this morning...I still have to read it but it seems everything ok

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Posted

Hi,

moved to germany in April from US.

Paid taxes in US until March and got W2 at year end.

Now, while filing German tax return, when I declared my US income, it has added to my annual income and I got included into a higher tax slab.

Is there any way to avoid this? I basically paid double taxes for the same income (once in US, and then in Germany).

Heard almost all European countries do this, and best way is to claim that you were unemployed before moving to any European country.

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Posted

If you file and lie you risk getting found out.

If you file and tell the truth you will pay a higher tax rate on your German income. The US income will not be taxed again.

You do know that, since you're an employee, nobody will query it if you do not submit a tax return?

--> if your US monthly gross salary was higher than your German gross, and you don't have too many moving expenses then you'll be better off not filing.

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