Military service for dual nationalities

72 posts in this topic

Posted

Grateful if anyone could answer my query comprehensively and definately as the German Embassy is unable to provide any advice on the matter. Basically I was born in Germany and therefore hold a German passport and birth certificate. However I moved to Britiain since the age of three and have lived here since. I have never returned to Germany. Over this time at the age of 16 I obtained British citizenship so in effect I have duel nationality - British and German. I am now 38. I looking into renouncing my German citizenship and would like to know whether I am or was required to do military service. Does anyone know the answer to this?

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Posted

There is no obligatory national service in Germany anymore.

 

Edit: What Hazza said

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Posted

Why would you renounce it? It's not like it's costing you any money (on the contrary, it will cost you money and time to renounce it), and it may one day be useful, if not for you then for your kids, who by jus sanguini law are/will be German too.

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Posted

Thanks,I did wonder whether depite the law being changed I still owe service to Germany.

 

- on the question of renouncing. I think it is important to be acustom to the culture and lanaguage of one's country. I neither speak German or have visted the country since birth so I don't feel I deserve the nationality. Beside if my son wanted

to become an officer in the British Army this won't be permitted due to dual nationality reasons. The same applies for other instutions in the UK.

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Posted

Thats odd - my son (dual UK/German nationality) did military service here about 4 years ago & enjoyed it so much he extended by 3 months.

 

After the 3-months basic training he was assistent to the local system administrator & had a pretty fine time. Got a glowing Zeugnis.

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Posted

 

unless you were a resident here, then you were never required to do it.

 

Wrong.

 

The current conscription law says that any German who either:

a) is resident in Germany

B) is not resident in Germany but was previously

c) is not resident in Germany but holds a German passport

is required to do military service.

 

c) applies for the OP. The duty to serve however rests until OP becomes resident in Germany again.

 

The duty to serve fully ceases only under the following possible outcomes:

a) OP relinquishes his German nationality

B) OP relinquishes his German passport

 

If Germany goes to war or into a state of tension the duty to serve furthermore ceases when the OP turns 60.

 

 

compulsory military service ceased in Germany a short while back.

 

Conscription hasn't ceased. Adult German males remain wehrpflichtig. Only the service itself only becomes active if Germany enters a State of Tension or a State of Defense. Basically you're legally obligated to serve, but unless we go to war there is no service for you to do under this obligation.

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Posted

You might want to first determine whether you automatically lost your German citizenship when you applied for British citizenship. Although Germany is no longer allowed to prevent its citizens from obtaining an EU citizenship without losing German citizenship, I don't know how long it has been in effect.

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Posted

 

Wrong.

 

The current conscription law says that any German who either:

a) is resident in Germany

is not resident in Germany but was previously

c) is not resident in Germany but holds a German passport

is required to do military service.

 

c) applies for the OP. The duty to serve however rests until OP becomes resident in Germany again.

 

The duty to serve fully ceases only under the following possible outcomes:

a) OP relinquishes his German nationality

OP relinquishes his German passport

 

If Germany goes to war or into a state of tension the duty to serve furthermore ceases when the OP turns 60.

 

Conscription hasn't ceased. Adult German males remain wehrpflichtig. Only the service itself only becomes active if Germany enters a State of Tension or a State of Defense. Basically you're legally obligated to serve, but unless we go to war there is no service for you to do under this obligation.

 

Thanks Mr Pedantic. For all intents and purposes, my answer is correct. If you're never a resident, then you're never required to do it.

 

It was a pretty simple question and there's no need to come up with all sorts of convoluted and unlikely scenarios just to prove me wrong.

 

For all intents and purposes, the OP was never liable to be drafted, as he was never a resident and will never be drafted in future. There's no need to confuse the issue.

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Posted

 

Thanks,I did wonder whether depite the law being changed I still owe service to Germany.

 

- on the question of renouncing. I think it is important to be acustom to the culture and lanaguage of one's country. I neither speak German or have visted the country since birth so I don't feel I deserve the nationality. Beside if my son wanted

to become an officer in the British Army this won't be permitted due to dual nationality reasons. The same applies for other instutions in the UK.

 

Even if that becomes a problem, he could then renounce it himself. To each its own, I suppose. I would at least wait to see if the UK really remains in the EU before relinquishing a German passport.

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Posted

 

It was a pretty simple question

 

It's actually a pretty loaded question. There's literally hundreds of thousands of Germans (mostly among those born before 1972) who never served by "removing" themselves from the military's reach. There's laws - like the above - in place to "catch" these, and by blanket rule this of course also covers those who removed themselves from Germany for other reasons.

 

 

and will never be drafted in future.

 

... provided he relinquishes his German citizenship as he currently plans to do.

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Posted

I have to say this is rather confusing why isn't there a simply yes or no. Under Kato response the answer appear to be yes I would have to do military service because whilst I'm not resident in Germany I hold a German passport or under no under Hazza answer - I'm not resisdent so no military service is required. What is OP?

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Posted

Read what kato said again:

 

 

Basically you're legally obligated to serve, but unless we go to war there is no service for you to do under this obligation.

 

OP = original poster = you

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Posted

Exactly. Since last year there is no longer a service that you would have to do (unless we go to war).

 

You are, however, technically legally obligated to serve (like every German male adult), a duty which rests while you are not in Germany.

 

The law was written in this confusing way because this way they only need to change a single paragraph to reintroduce conscription.

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Posted

 

You might want to first determine whether you automatically lost your German citizenship when you applied for British citizenship. Although Germany is no longer allowed to prevent its citizens from obtaining an EU citizenship without losing German citizenship, I don't know how long it has been in effect.

 

The OP apparently took on UK citizenship circa 1990, so it is likely that he isn't a German citizen anymore UNLESS the fact that he was a minor at the time he took on UK citizenship takes precedence.

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Posted

 

It's actually a pretty loaded question...

 

For fucks sake, why make it more complex than it is?

 

The OP hasn't lived in Germany since he was 3 years old, and has no intention of ever coming back, as demonstrated by the fact that he wants to renounce his German citizenship. He also didn't remove himself to avoid military service.

 

So the easy, simple answer for his situation is no - he never has to do any military service. And he wouldn't even have to do it if he kept his German citizenship and came back. In fact, I doubt whether he would even be allowed to serve if he came back and tried to as a volunteer, given that he's 38 years old and has no German language skills.

 

It's also a no for anyone else - and highlighting the bit that says that he could be drafted if Germany is at war is ridiculous. It is so highly unlikely that it's not worth mentioning.

 

But no...you had to insist on being right and parrot a bunch of irrelevant bullshit information to look like a clever dick and to prove me wrong - and the result? The OP is confused.

 

See:

 

 

I have to say this is rather confusing why isn't there a simply yes or no...

 

Are you happy now??

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Posted

 

I am now 38.

In any case, I think there is an age limit as well.

When I turned 28, they informed me that i don't need to expect being drafted anymore. I think that age was later dropped to 24.

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Posted

 

would like to know whether I am or was required to do military service.

 

They don't draft anyone any more, even young, able-bodied Germans who actually live in Germany and speak German. Even in the past, you wouldn't be drafted for at least two reasons, each of which would be sufficient on its own:

 

  1. you're too old, and
  2. you're not a permanent resident of Germany.

 

 

I neither speak German or have visted the country since birth so I don't feel I deserve the nationality.

 

It doesn't sound like a matter of deserving it or not. You never asked for German citizenship. Rather, the German lawmaker decided to give it to you automatically, whether you liked it or not, with whatever rights and obligations this entails.

 

 

Beside if my son wanted to become an officer in the British Army this won't be permitted due to dual nationality reasons. The same applies for other instutions in the UK.

 

 

  • If you renounce your German citizenship, this is probably going to have no impact on your son's German citizenship, if he already has it. Even if you can apply for renunciation on your son's behalf, why impose an irrevocable decision on him while he's a minor and bear the responsibility for that choice? You could let him choose whether to renounce his German nationality when he's an adult and can make up his own mind.
  • As long as you're a UK citizen, you can serve in the armed forces. Having another citizenship is no impediment. See this page on the RAF's website. As for other government posts, even the governor of the Bank of England is Canadian.

 

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