Pension entitlement UK and Germany

15 posts in this topic

Posted

Is anyone of the age where this applies?

With the recent announcement about the UK pension 'simplification' (you have to laugh)... or cry.

I am wondering what really happens in fact.

I was in the position until this latest announcment of being fully paid up to maybe one day receive the basic state pension come whatever the retirement age is by then e.g. I have 30 years NI contributions in the bag. Now the latest announcement states, if it goes through this means for a full basic UK pension 35 years NI contributions will be required, so if I want the full whatever I will have to put another 5 years worth into the pot. I will stew on this as I have some time just yet and I can make upto 6 years back contributions, meaning if the worst came to the worst I could make a full 5 years payment right at the last minute. Unless they change the number years again? I would not put it past the Conservatives to do this either! I am also hjolding off because the 35 years could be reduced again and you cannot claim back if you have paid too amny years for Full Entitlement. So it seems it is best to let the dust settle.

Right back to my question. Anyone getting a Full UK basic pension paid to them whilst residing in Germany AND some additional pension from the Germans too? I ask because I am currently in their system now, have been for a while and I get a statement letter every so often informing of the Low and High amount monthly I could get from them.

Are the 2 pensions treated seperately? Do the 2 authorities talk to each other? Is there any possibility that the UK or the Germans reduce your entitlement because you are getting something from the other country? Just interested to know as I feel that if someone pays into both then it is their right to receive this money.

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Posted

Your question is actually beyond the present "simplification" of the UK state pension.

Basically, if you have paid enough to be entitled for a state pension of country A, then country A will pay you a pension. Period. When and how much they are all always tweaking it, so until day X you won't be able to tell...

If you ALSO paid pension contribution for a state pension of country B, then ALSO country B will pay you a pension.

The thing to bear in mind is that WHERE you live actually does not matter. It does matter for how much you will be taxed. Generally, if you reside in country C, then only country C will tax you (there are exceptions...).

Hope this helps.

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Posted

Hi Gambatte,

I don't think you're correct here. My father in the Netherlands receives a small pension from the DRV (Deutsche Rentenversicherung) in Germany. Since 2005 this is taxable in Germany. The DRV cooperates with the Finanzamt. My father needs to fill in some EU tax form which he receives from the Finanzamt. There he needs to indicate his world income. This also includes his Dutch state and company pension. The Dutch tax authorities need to confirm this with stamp and signature, before he sends this to the Finanzamt who tax him accordingly. He pays tax to the German Finanzamt, not to the Dutch tax authorities. Actually, the Finanzamt said that if he would reside in Germany he wouldn't pay any taxes on his small pension, so it does matter WHERE you live.

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Posted

No chance of them reducing the years again... it was SO obvious that the 30 years for a full pension would go up again in view of the fact that the pension pot is underfunded. I suspect it was a ruse to get folk paying in again voluntarily - if you were not far off 30 years you would be tempted to do that. Guess in another 20 years you will need 40 years for a full pension so not much chance of you having overpaid. They are hiking it up incrementally - both retirement age and the number of years you need for a full pension. Goal posts will keep changing.

No country reduces what you are paid because you paid into more than one system. On the contrary, if you have a full UK pension you get the German bit on top. But be prepared to pay tax in Germany on your German pension and tax in UK on your UK pension...

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Posted

Thank you all for your replies, and excuse my previous spelling errors I now noticed, it was late in the evening when I waffled my question. The pension requirement was reduced substantially - 40 years to 30 years so it could come down again if has before.

France - This may be the country of choice I think. UK do not want to go back there, too much has changed and continues to do so! Not sure if it will be necessary to pray to Allah in a few more years....!! :(

Tax - What sort of percentage could I expect to lose off my hard paid for pension?

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Posted

Since you are not receiving your pension yet, nobody will be able to tell you with any certainty how much tax you will have to pay - just like the other pensions rules keep changing, so does the amount of tax that you pay!

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Posted

LukeSkywalker,

the GROSS amount you are given depends on what you are entitled to (how much contribution you paid, etc.), and not on where you live.

Where you live determines how much income tax you pay on the gross you receive. So, the NET amount you get yes, depends on your residence.

That's actually why many rich people take residenship in fancy places, where they are taxed less...

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Posted

gregca

What you say about waiting does not make any difference is not correct. Paying UK voluntary contributions depends upon your circumstances. eg. If you are working or self-employed outside the UK then you can pay UK contributions voluntary. Class 2 costs £2,65 per week if you are working abroad. If you wait and want to pay when you are not working eg. receiving a German ( or other ) pension then you must pay Class 3 = £13,25 per week which amounts to over £500 extra per year = 6 years amounts to an additional £ 3,000. I would advise you to check this out as soon as possible

https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/who-can-pay-voluntary-contributions

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Posted

If you are working or self-employed outside the UK then you can pay UK contributions voluntary. Class 2 costs £2,65 per week if you are working abroad

Ballgobackwards,

I was nto aware of this. It is very interesting. My wife will move with me to Germany from the UK, she is self employed, no idea what German state pension entitlement she will build so before we find that out it it's good she keeps paying her UK contribution... interesting forum here...

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Posted

ballygobackwards - Interesting re: Difference in contributions. These booklets are always confusing to me anyway so can I ask.

What would I be classed as now if I am just residing in Germany, not working, not registered Unemployed and not claiming any social benefits relative to not working e.g. seeking a job etc. I am also not yet claiming or getting a Pension from the Germans or anyone else. What class would I be put in (no jokes please). Would I actually be allowed to make contribuitons to the UK NI system? If you do not know I assume I will have to telephone Newcastle, but I loathe to do this and put myself on their radar for the sake of it just yet. Paranoid about petty bureaucrats

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Posted

a Pension from the Germans

Have you contributed to the German system in any way? And if not, on what basis should they pay you?

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Posted

Yes. I have worked here for a number of years. Bu t now I do not.

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Posted

Gregca - you would have to pay Class 3 contribs in your present situation. Self-employed or employed abroad pay Class 2. Get employed (presume you will have to make some money to live) and then pay Class 2.

Consult the link above. It is murder phoning Newcastle and they refer you to the websites anyway for general information and are not up to answering specific "hard" questions out of their narrow field of competence. I got passed from pillar to post and gave up.

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Posted

yep I agree it is fairly obvious looking at your 'useful' link

https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/who-can-pay-voluntary-contributions

I am required to pay £13.25 per week NI contributions.

I don't think it will come down and is likely to go up.

I am going to wait maybe until more is announced maybe later in the year, So much for the Lib-Dems fighting on the side of the oppressed! Toads are just basking in their glory and unknown power.

Although I don't think waiting until the proposal comes into effect (2017)as by then the weekly contrubutions are likely to have increased to at least £20+.

Thank you to all the useful comments posted relating to this topic.

BTW featherlight are you currently residing in France? If so I have couple of questions for you if you do not mind.

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Posted

Gregca. Quite simple, you are not working here so you must pay the class 3 in the Uk. If you check the link I posted you will see . It states = People living abroad and not working in the country they moved to must pay Class 3

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