Publishing photos online of my daughter

51 posts in this topic

Posted

Hi,

I am going through a very nasty, dirty and irrational custody battle right now with my ex-GERMAN girlfriend. We have a beautiful girl of just over two and I recieved a request from her lawyer this week to remove all photos on my facebook account of my daughter.

I am a New Zealander who's family and most of his friends are updated of our life here in Germany via Facebook. I love my daughter so am always posting photos of our time together and what we have been up too, and have told my ex-partner that my account is limited to friends and family to view photos or status, but she still wants them removed.

Her words were I don't want your b*t*hes seeing my daughter's photos.

The photos were taken by me, or friends and not her, all in good taste with no nude or anything crazy like that.

I gave up everything to make the choice to come here to live here and be a Dad for my girl, and Facebook is the best way I know to keep our connections around the world in touch with us.

No I am not the type of person to email 500 odd friends with photos and updates as this isn't me and no one will hear from me if given this as the only choice as I am just not like that, which is why I have found Facebook such a good way to stay in touch.

I want to go if I refuse and go to court, will I be made to comply and remove them? I am 50% custodian at this time by law.

Thanks, as from what I have researched myself of this, I couldn't of chosen a more anal retentive country to fight this battle in, seeing how they are so data sensitive here. However there does not seem to be a clear cut answer on this and maybe someone in the know could help before I go down the path of fighting this in court.

Cheers in advance

NC

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Posted

Hi Boots,

Thanks I had already taken your steps but her lawyer has asked for proof I have removed contact from my account of our daughter.

How do you hide the cover and profile photos as they both have me and my girl in them?

Can her lawyer request info from FB, and I still prefer to be legally safe as this girl is a freak when it comes to allegations.

Cheers again

Nick

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Posted

you cannot hide the profile photo,just change it,put your pet dog or cat there or something and good luck mate ;)

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Posted

Same for the timeline cover, anyone can see this. Just use a generic timeline cover, there are tons of sites that provide them in the right dimensions for free.

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Posted

Thanks "Timezoner" and "Perfect Poise".

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Posted

"Thepanda"

Thanks and not harsh at all. I obviously am only really looking at it from my side only. I understand what your saying but it means inviting all those on FB to the new platform to view. We allknow people are generally either lazy or not looking to move away from what they already know.

She is only doing it for one purpose and security is not it. I am basing my defence to FB publishing on it is the best way for me to communicate. Yes you are right I could remove photos that have been seen also, however I am also adding friends from my past, so it does give a very detailed history of her two years to date. Just a proud Dad, and nothing more or nothing less.

I really just want to know if what she is asking is going to hold up if this did go to court.

Just to highlight this a bit more, not only have we both filed custody orders against eachother, we both have laid criminal charges against eachother also. So as you can see it is already pretty pathetic from both sides, and all I can say from my side is I acted in the best interest of my girl until Xmas when she took my daughter and didnt return her and what she has put me through since the seperation this was the final straw for me and I am now so angry I don't want to give an inch on anything anymore.

It may seem petty looking from outside but she knows my reasons for FB, but it is all about cutting me down some more, and enough is enough.

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Posted

There's always email for photos.

I know. I know.

What does your lawyer say?

Sounds like a very difficult situation and I wish you all the best.

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Posted

I'm at the age where a large portion of my friends have kids ages 0-5, and most of them post pictures of their kids on Facebook - at picnics, at festivals, at Disneyland, in Halloween costumes, doing such and such cute thing of the week. With the appropriate FB settings, merely posting pictures that can be seen by people (whom you, the parent, have chosen), is perfectly harmless in my opinion. I am curious if this lawyer is actually invoking a law on the German books, or if the take-down request is just a tactic to assert some psychological dominance in the custody battle.

My guess is, a court can only make you comply if there is some law that requires both parents' consent to post photos online. Otherwise, who is the government to tell you what you can do with your own family photos? Given how far behind laws are regarding the internet*, I suspect there is no such law. But only someone well-versed family law could tell you for sure.

*In every aspect except commerce, because when there's money at stake, business lobby the politicians.

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Posted

Use picasaweb instead. That way you have control over who can see the pictures.

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Posted

"Thepanda"

Thanks and not harsh at all. I obviously am only really looking at it from my side only. I understand what your saying but it means inviting all those on FB to the new platform to view. We allknow people are generally either lazy or not looking to move away from what they already know.

She is only doing it for one purpose and security is not it. I am basing my defence to FB publishing on it is the best way for me to communicate. Yes you are right I could remove photos that have been seen also, however I am also adding friends from my past, so it does give a very detailed history of her two years to date. Just a proud Dad, and nothing more or nothing less.

I really just want to know if what she is asking is going to hold up if this did go to court.

Just to highlight this a bit more, not only have we both filed custody orders against eachother, we both have laid criminal charges against eachother also. So as you can see it is already pretty pathetic from both sides, and all I can say from my side is I acted in the best interest of my girl until Xmas when she took my daughter and didnt return her and what she has put me through since the seperation this was the final straw for me and I am now so angry I don't want to give an inch on anything anymore.

It may seem petty looking from outside but she knows my reasons for FB, but it is all about cutting me down some more, and enough is enough.

Your situation is very difficult and I don't envy you. I really hope that there's a good outcome. One option would be to set up another facebook account for another name -- and friend the people who you want to share the pics with from that account. Facebook have some terms about it, but my friend list if FULL of people called "banana mcpotatohead" and similar...

Also, you could create a dropbox account. You create a folder called "my daughter pics" and then share that folder. You can update the contents regularly and you don't need to have a dropbox account to view the pics if someone has sent you the link.

Flickr also has a sharing function whereby you create a set and share a link -- once you have the link you can view the pics without an account. These may be options for you.

I hope it all works out for you.

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Posted

kiwigerman2,

For one divorced couple I was formerly connected to, the ex-wife sued for full custody of the children, and had the ex-husband served with the papers on his birthday. Also, he had at one time supposedly planned to burn down her house.

So, ya know, chin up. Things could be worse. :P

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Posted

None of you have answered the real question though. As far as I'm aware, she cannot request you to delete photos, as you are the father. Obviously you should be careful and all that, but legally you are well within your rights.

•Nach den Bestimmungen des Kunsturheberrechts dürfen Bilder von dritten Personen nur mit deren Einverständnis ins Netz gestellt werden. Für die eigenen Kinder, sofern sie jünger als 14 sind, können die Eltern dieses Einverständnis erteilen.

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Posted

I'd still like to know what his lawyer says.

I'm sure I never did anything that my ex's lawyer told me to do. He wasn't the boss of me.

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Posted

"fraufruit"- Lawyer is family lawyer and was not 100% sure himself. Like him and our mediator they have never heard of such a request before.

"quasipseudopizzaoid" I like your reasoning when it comes to being told to do soemthing that has no law to enforce. This is basicallywaht I really need to know, is there such a law that exists as I can't imagine there isn't so to be able to protect minors from unlawful use of images. However this is not the case, and from what I am finding out they like to taek care of their own here before those non German.

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Posted

I am not a lawyer, but as far as I know if a parent who has a Sorgerecht (it doesn't have to be sole custody, shared custody is enough) objects, then you are not allowed to publish them.

Facebook would erase them if contacted by that parent, see here.

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Posted

"camlough" Thanks for the information:

"PandaMunich", if not a lawyer then can I ask when you found that information? Interesting on FB info, but also appreciate they only act on what is in front of them, and in that case would be her contacting them to make that happen. Just not sure why she didn't just do that already if it was that simple for her, as she is very cunnings and has found most ways possible to screw me and make me leave, so this would of been a easy thing for her and she is also a FB user like me?.

Thanks again everyone for your input.

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Posted

"El Jeffo" thanks mate haven't laughed since Xmas.

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Posted

I'm not involved in any kind of dispute over my son's images, but when my son was born, I set up a blog for him that is password protected so that his overseas relatives could see how he's getting on. It's mostly photos and the odd update, which saves us from clogging e-mail inboxes with photos and those awkward conversations with relatives that would prefer not to receive them anymore. My mother-in-law checks it every day since by now it's like a huge photo album for her to enjoy with her morning coffee.

I set it up on blogger and the uploading is a lot faster and easier for videos and photos than facebook anyway. Unless you are required to do so, I don't see any reason to even tell anyone about the blog outside of those you want to include, and it won't be publicly listed (not google-able). I also feel much more comfortable posting pictures there that he might later find embarrassing (like in a diaper, or sleeping with a bunch of drool on the pillow) since it's family only.

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Posted

Kiwigerman2, it might depend on how much money you are willing to throw into this case. I tend to agree with El Jeffo, as long as it's just her lawyer making the request, and not the Court telling you to do so, the case is fair game. You need your lawyer to research and find out what the jurisprudence on the issue is. From what PandaMunich says, perhaps you really don't have the right to do this without her consent. (Shared custody really does mean shared. Your ex can't enroll the girl in a school or subject her to a medical procedure without your joint signature.)

On the Facebook sharing issue, there could be a potential gray zone, and if your lawyer is game for a fight, this could go far. (Doesn't this just sound like the kind of case one ends up reading about in the papers? Privacy issues, data sharing, German custody laws, etc.)

Having said all that, my advice to you now would be to start looking for paths toward healing with your ex. The girl is only 2. You are going to be her parents for the rest of your lives. It is a war zone between you now, but it is in all of your best interests to start finding ways at least toward a ceasefire, maybe ultimately toward a grudging acceptance. I know I have been extremely fortunate in my own divorce from my German ex. We really do get along fine, after a few rocky moments in the first couple of years. Don't let the fight take on a life of its own: this is what will happen, the more the lawyers get involved. An endless stream of papers and court dates, and in the end, nobody is happy.

For now, unless it becomes clear that you are NOT allowed, by the terms of German co-custody, to share pictures of her on Facebook, I'd say keep doing it, just out of her eyesight, as the others have said. (I wouldn't advocate this elsewhere, but I find that with Germans, it is counterproductive to back down. Once you show weakness, you'll be kicked like a dog.) Meanwhile, be as unadversarial as you can be with her. Try not to exacerbate the situation, and show some willingness to someday accept her as co-parent of your daughter.

Anyway, I feel for you. It all sounds ghastly right now, and I'm sure my words sound like some new-age loony talking. But hold on to the faith. Maybe someday the two of you will be able to work together on this again.

All best & good luck!

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Posted

"PandaMunich", if not a lawyer then can I ask when you found that information?

It's common knowledge and the problem with shared custody.

The minor holds the right to his/her own photos (Recht am eigenen Bild), but being a minor, is represented by the legal guardian.

As soon as you have two guardians with equal rights who disagree, you have a stalemate and the solution to that is to simply remain in the previous default state that was still free of conflict, in your case that state is the one you had before you started publishing the photos.

Think of yourselves as two people joined at the hip, if the two of you can't agree on a direction, you simply remain where you are.

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Posted

"Justanne" Thanks and believe me one thing I have been too guilty of is being fair so our daughter would not get hurt. Some history, she cleared my savings accounts out when we split in May and I was abroad for work. She broke into my home when away in Munich and stole more money and my belongings, She until November had been accessing my bank accounts to pay her phone,health and gym membership without my approval, she has uplifted my daughter from Kindy on so many of my days it isn't funny and placed a court order on me in October only to retract it when she knew I had the proof to defend her lies. She has now turned up atmy house on my day on the 24t with my daughetr and caused a scene until I gave in only to find she then went to police and courts on 27th to say I hit her with her holding my daughter and is going for full custody now. She has placed a restrianing order on me which is just so stupid as we have a kid to bring up together.

She never gave me choice of Kindy and even doesnt tellme when she is having vaccinations like the last timemy daughter was staying with me she had fever. I asked the mother if she had been OK and she told me she had a vaccination the week before. I said why was I not told or asked,she said when our daughter is with her she doesnt need to tell me anything.

She told our mediator I was not paying her money but have bank records to show I have, and told mediator she only wanted me to have my daughter two days a fortnight with which mediator said was not good forour girl. 5 weeks later all this has happened now.

I have been to courts for ask for consistency on our days to prevent her from disrupting our daughters routine and to stop me being walked over. I have also now been to police about everything as I had always not wanted my daughtersmother to get in trouble with police so just let her get away with it.

My life is hard enough without this shit as I live for my daughter and then die again for the days we are apart. This is a very evil act to see me out of my daughters life because she has a new guy she prefers as her Dad for my daughter.

Always two sides to a story, and this is mine.

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