Using insurance from another EU country

26 posts in this topic

Posted

I currently reside in Austria, where everyone is required to pay quarterly into the public social insurance. I will be moving to Germany early next year. I would like to be publicly insured in there. I believe I qualify since I've paid into the system of a EU member state for at least 12 consecutive months. I am debating whether to pay for the first quarter of 2013 (Jan through March) in Austria. I want to avoid paying two premiums. Do residents of Germany have to be insured from the time of Anmeldung? If I am back charged, does it also mean I am retroactively insured?

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Posted

It depends, Alice. If you come here as an employee ( but not seconded by a company in Austria ), then you have to take out public insurance from registration or start of your work contract ( unless you earn over 52200 euros a year..then you could opt for private insurance ).

 

If you´re self-employed, you can sometimes apply for an A1 form and stay in the home system (in this case, Austria´s ) for a year or so.

This overlapping doesn´t always work well here, though and it depends if you intend to stay long term or not.

 

There is no reason to pay for two insurances - though you might want to check out how much public insurance will set you back on a monthly basis here ( self-employed: 14.9% of your gross income from whatever source! The minimum..depends..but usually at least 300 euros a month). If you were backcharged, yes, you would be covered retroactively.

 

I recommend you go over to the Finance forum on here and read the debates over the past couple of years or go to the Search button top right here and type in "Health insurance in German " etc..this is a popular topic!

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Posted

Yes, you have to be insured from the time of your anmeldung. Once you get a job, your employer will ask where you are insured so they can deduct your premiums from your wages. At that point, you will have to arrange insurance if you didn't already. The insurance will ask for your anmeldung and you will get backcharged. Getting backcharged does not mean you are retroactively insured, it is more like a fine for not bothering to sign up as soon as you arrived.

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Posted

Thank you, John. Minimum €300/month?! Well, it's a no-brainer. I'm staying on the Austrian system because I pay half that! I hope after a year, if I decide to stay, getting on a German insurance will not be problematic.

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Posted

alicetours,

John G is a resident TT Insurance expert and professional, please take his advice.

 

I'm not an insurance expert or professional but I do know that if your Austrian health insurance is not an accepted and acknowledged one in Germany, then when you do take out a German public health insurance it will be backdated to when you first registered here and all those premiums will be due.

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Posted

under what conditions can I apply for an A1 form?

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Posted

 

I'm staying on the Austrian system because I pay half that! I hope after a year, if I decide to stay, getting on a German insurance will not be problematic.

 

Please note that John said that is sometimes possible.

 

 

under what conditions can I apply for an A1 form?

 

It depends in part on your citizenship/permit status in Austria.

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Posted

Alicetours: as John_G has already hinted at, nobody can give you a good answer if you leave out some vital information: are you coming to Germany on employment or as a self-employed person/freelancer? This is what makes all the difference...

 

If you come into a German employment, you need to get German health insurance from day 1.

Should you be coming to Germany as a self-employed person/freelancer AND have been self-employed in Austria before, you could file for a secondment to German thru which you could stay up to 1 year still insured in the Austrian system. However, you have to file this form, formerly it was an E101-form, now all merged into the A1 form.

This you can get from your local Austrian authority, i.e. your public health insurance in Austria. There you also have to file it and get it approved.

Without an A1 you are required to get German health insurance from the first months onwards when you register at a new adress in Germany. Also beware: if your are self-employed and DO NOT enter voluntarily into the German public health insurance within the first 3 months upon taking up residence in Germany, you lose the right to do so and can then only go with private health insurance.

 

Cheerio

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Posted

 

Alicetours: as John_G has already hinted at, nobody can give you a good answer if you leave out some vital information: are you coming to Germany on employment or as a self-employed person/freelancer? This is what makes all the difference...

 

Should you be coming to Germany as a self-employed person/freelancer AND have been self-employed in Austria before, you could file for a secondment to German thru which you could stay up to 1 year still insured in the Austrian system.

 

If your are self-employed and DO NOT enter voluntarily into the German public health insurance within the first 3 months upon taking up residence in Germany, you lose the right to do so and can then only go with private health insurance.

 

Cheerio

 

Thanks for your thorough answer. I am freelancing here and will continue in Germany.

If I stay on the Austrian social insurance, will I still be able to go public after the one year is up?

Considering it costs €300 and up a month (as john g estimated) to be on public, wouldn't it be better just to go private? I'm sure I could get a pretty good comprehensive insurance for that price, and the premium won't increase with my income.

Does the 12 consecutive months or two years in the last five years in a EU member state rule apply when getting an A1 form?

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Posted

Well, Alice: it MIGHT be better to go private but that depends on many issues! Your exact age, whether you have any health impairments, the level of cover you want and - your nationality/visa status here ( for German private insurance ). If you´re non-EU and only planning to stay a year or so and don´t have a " good income " ( definition nuclear!!), German private insurance won´t take you anyway anymore . Otherwise, a legal international health inurance (NOT travel insurance ) MIGHT be a good solution (unless you get pregant within the first 11 months or so..then NOT a good solution )!!

Yes to your last question!

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Posted

Thanks again, John. Do you happen to know the answer to my first question?

 

 

If I stay on the Austrian social insurance, will I still be able to go public after the one year is up?

 

 

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Posted

 

Thanks for your thorough answer. I am freelancing here and will continue in Germany.

If I stay on the Austrian social insurance, will I still be able to go public after the one year is up?

Considering it costs €300 and up a month (as john g estimated) to be on public, wouldn't it be better just to go private? I'm sure I could get a pretty good comprehensive insurance for that price, and the premium won't increase with my income.

Does the 12 consecutive months or two years in the last five years in a EU member state rule apply when getting an A1 form?

 

When you get the correct A1-form for secondment-use for self-employed, you'll be staying in the Austrian system and hence you continue to collect "consecutive months" in a public system of an EU memberstate. From there you can then alway later switch to German public insurance without any problems.. As John_G said, you can even extend the secondment with good reasons for up to two years max.

However, I can't stress this fact enough: you have to apply for and receive the correct A1-form in order to make this work. If you current A1-form, as I fear is the case, only is giving the information about your prior status in Austria in lieu of the old E-104 form, then you would loose your right to enter public health insurance as a voluntary member after 3 months of stay in Germany. Therefore make sure you have the correct papers and all before you make the move to Germany.

 

Cheerio

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Posted

Bet the German public K :D assen don´t know which is the correct form, Starshollow!!! They still keep asking about E104!!!

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Posted

 

Also beware: if your are self-employed and DO NOT enter voluntarily into the German public health insurance within the first 3 months upon taking up residence in Germany, you lose the right to do so and can then only go with private health insurance.

 

Even I, with very little knowledge of insurance, know this bit above (I happen to be a freelancer myself) - I would say this should be the decisive issue. Being forced to go private can run you into all sorts of trouble; not only might insurance be way more costly, but remember you will have to pay upfront before claiming money back from your insurance.

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Posted

Just to prove that I have paid into a country of the EU, what form would I need?

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Posted

 

Should you be coming to Germany as a self-employed person/freelancer AND have been self-employed in Austria before, you could file for a secondment to German thru which you could stay up to 1 year still insured in the Austrian system.

 

Considering that the applicable legislation is "as a general rule, that of the Member State in which the person concerned pursues his activity as an employed or self-employed person" (Regulation No 883/2004) and the exemption is only for temporary stays in another Member State for a maximum of 24 months (Art. 12), do self-employed persons need to prove that they have an intention of returning to the original Member State in order to qualify for an A1?

 

I'm thinking that if the OP does not have any ties to Austria and gives up her job, apartment, etc. to move to Germany that it'll be difficult to claim that it is only a temporary move (I'm assuming that she is not Austrian) and thereby eligible to continue to be insured in Austria. Furthermore, if she is not an EU citizen, her resident permit would probably become void upon moving to Germany (if the Austrian rules are in anyway similar to the German ones).

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Posted

Good opening question, engelchen! One for the EU lawyers et al but I remember two years ago we had the case of a UK national, self-employed in Switzerland but also paying NI contributions in the UK and coming to Germany where he would not actually be seeking employement (for health reasons ). He got the forms from Switzerland (in this case, the S1 form), which we passed along with the application and he got insured in the public system here ( without any proof of intention to stay or go back to Switzerland ).

More importantly..and I alluded to it myself...what nationality is alicetours and does she have a visa to live here? ( For some delusional reason..I think she´s Australian with a Croatian father or mother and comes from Alice Springs!!! But I inhaled weird stuff as a y :D oung traveller way back then!!)

 

Edit: back to Gillian´s comments! Whether you pay up front and get reimbursed by the insurance company..that depends on the tariff and whether you have an excess/deductible in the policy. For example, assuming you have an annual deductible/excess of 300 euros and you have 200 euros of bills that year..you pay upfront and get nothing back. Assuming you have the same 300 euros/deductible per annum and you end up in hospital and unable to settle things directly...then the insurance and the hospital sort it out amongst themselves...other tariffs have a no-claims bonus and you decide to pay yourself anyway if the bill is lower than the benefits of not claiming anything.

 

Complicated world, this, erm, world!!!

 

It all depends!!

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Posted

 

...what nationality is alicetours and does she have a visa to live here? ( For some delusional reason..I think she´s Australian with a Croatian father or mother and comes from Alice Springs!!!

 

I think alicetours is American and not married, so no automatic visa from being married to a EU citizen.

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Posted

Is a residence permit a pre-requisite for being publicly insured? I thought it was the other way around.

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