Post Nuptial to buy a house in Germany

51 posts in this topic

Posted

Hallo all,

I'm Indonesian married to a German since 2009 and have been living in Germany since that year. I just got my permanent resident permit few months ago. We're married in Indonesia and we (or better I!) were not well informed about law in Indonesia about married to foreigner (love is blind!). We didn't make a prenuptial agreement which means that we or even I'm alone not allowed to own/ buy property in Indonesia. My parents cannot buy me a house from their money because I'm not allowed to have it with my name because I'm married to a foreigner. And when they are passed away, the house which supposed to be mine then (I'm a single child of my parents) has to be sold - doesn't matter if I live in Indonesia or Germany. So short say, I lost my right in my own country even I'm still Indonesian citizen. At the moment this problem doesn't bother us much because we live in Germany anyway but sometimes it's just too bad to see how cheap property there and in fact we have money to buy it as investment but we can't do that just because no one told me about the important of prenuptial agreement in my country.

Anyway now, I don't work anymore in Germany,we have 1 year old sweet daughter and we plan to buy a house. We found the house already and working on the administration now. Because I don't have income anymore (I was self-employed) my husband will make the financial contract only with his name, so if something bad happened I don't need to continue financing because I don't have money anyway. His parents will pay the 50% price of the house as a 'gift' and my husband will pay the rest with credit from bank.

Now they; husband and his parents told me that husband and I have to make a contract, not only about the financial thing but it sounds like post nuptial agreement that if something is happened I will not receive any cent from this new house because 1. I don't help with the financial credit 2. I'm foreigner here in Germany.

Now I'm kinda sad, I know I can't help financing the house but my thought was, my husband buy the house for us three not for him alone. I don't have any intention to have part of his belonging, I won't demand anything if I'm for example, the one who ruin the marriage and leave him but how if in fact husband has that plan? To divorce me after this? That's why he needs to make post nuptial agreement? What is my right and my daughter's right on this? I tried to ask him about this and he said I don't need to be silly because the contract needs to be made just because he's married to an 'Ausländer'. It sounds incorrect to me.

I lost already my rights in my country because of this marriage and now I don't even know if I have any right here in with him. I even told him maybe we better divorce first, before he buy the house, then make pre nuptial agreement which cover about things in Indonesia and in Germany so we both will be happy and then re-married again. He found the idea is stupid. It is stupid but many have done that.

So anyone can give me some clues what to do? Is it true that married to an Ausländer is a problem in buying a house in Germany? Or at least someone can help me if I need to make some paragraphs for the contract before we meet the Notar? Or maybe I'm just paranoid? Many Thanks!

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Posted

Actually, since his parents will pay 50%, it is half of what remains, i.e. half of whatever of the house has been paid off by him at the time of the divorce.

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Posted

Being an Ausländer is not an issue to buy property but being a golddigger is.

-29

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Posted

Oh-oh, sounds familiar. You are contributing by staying at home and looking after YOUR child.

Don't sign the papers. You need a roof over your head, both yourself and your child(ren later on?) if something should happen to your husband *touch wood*

Since he's buying the house, and if what he says is really true* - he cannot buy without you signing that paper - then DON'T sign. He doesn't get to buy a house, you don't lose anything. If he really want to buy the house, then he signs to your favour i.e. you & children are either entitled to the house if he dies BUT do make sure that you are not left with his debt. What I understood from my bank is, if I die and my family wants to inherit my apartment, they have to pay the outstanding mortgage so I told my mother never to claim my flat if I die unless I have already finished the financing.

Another thing, if your husband insist on you signing something and you cannot decline him, then he may add that you are not entitled to the house if you are the one who initiate a divorce - that might be what he is after? No house when he dies, no deal. Think about it: no house here (no job), no house back in Indonesia?!

*P.S. I am a foreigner and I own a property here in Germany so the part he said about you being a foreigner is definitely bullshit!

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Posted

Let me rephrase.

Obviously you have no loving relationship with your in-laws. Here are my two cents:

A woman regardless whether she is married or not should some earn money on the side.

A friend of mine married a Spanish man, and her mother-in-law was so envious of her that she advised her son to hide money and

wealth away from her. She kept calling her a golddigger cause she did not work for a short period of time when she was married. And this

although her mother in law did the same thing in her younger years.

You should:

1. Generate some kind of a income

2. Never ever tell your in-laws how much you possess or what you really earn. They are hiding stuff away from you, so should you.

Also form an "emergency fund" for yourself and your daughter. Do not tell your husband about this.

3. Have some sort of a secret account for yourself and your daughter. Possibly in Indonesia?

4. Do consult a lawyer. But never ever tell your husband about it. Do not let your in-laws ruin your marriage.

5. Do not sign such a paper. It is your right to get alimony if you get divorced. Don't let anyone screw you over.

IF they are playing dirty, so should you. It is duty to protect your well being and the well being of your daughter.

-7

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Posted

I agree.

As far as I understood it, this is about the house, not about alimony.

Anyway, the only alimony in question is the one paid to the mother if she takes care of the child until that child's 3rd birthday - after that day the mum is supposed to put the child in a Kindergarten and work to support herself, and she will not get any alimony for herself, only the alimony for the child.

The other two kinds of alimony that she cannot sign away anyway, so she would always get them:



  • alimony during the separation period before the divorce is pronounced (= Trennungsunterhalt)
  • alimony for her daughter (= Kindesunterhalt) until the daughter is 18 years old, or until the age up to 26 when the daughter finally finishes her education

Not quite.

That lawyer says he won't charge extra for the first consultation as long as he gets a nice, juicy case (= Mandatserteilung) from her:

  • Eine Erstberatung ist bei uns kostenlos bei Mandatserteilung.

This is nothing special, in fact it is the law that they then do not charge for the initial consultation.

If she chooses not open a case after the consultation, that consultation will cost her up to 226.10€.

All of this is explained in detail in the TT divorce wiki.

I did not say that she won't get alimony when she signs the papers. I was trying to tell her that she will alimony

anyway. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I was just telling her that she has the upper hand as a woman in Germany.

Ok so what do you have to offer her besides the Wiki info? I actually went out of my way to google a lawyer for her.

If you are going to make a smart ass comment at least post something helpful.

-18

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Posted

tari,

concerning your lost rights in Indonesia, it could make sense to get an indonesien passport for your child, besides the german one. Double nationality should be no problem until your daughter is 18 years old. And it's well possible that german and indonesian law will change in the coming years so your daughter could keep both passports all her life.

If you have double nationality for her, I would try to find out if your parents can't make a will which would ,once they are both dead and gone, make your daughter become the heiress/owner of their house.

What is happening right now with your inlaws and your husband seems to be a problem which spouses from certain foreign countries are often confronted: Fear. They simply fear that the marriage could fail and they loose money due to the divorce rights . I know a dozen of such cases. And sadly, that fear is like a selffulfilling prophecy, your partner and you will from now on live together with more or less mistrust.

Having a job, own income, hidden cash etc -all sound well but in my experience isn't just easy to obtain, esp with a small child.

Good luck.

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Posted

Children of German nationals can have dual nationality their whole lives- nothing to do with age for any children born in the last 10+ years. Just like my dual national kids.

-5

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Posted

Does he have a life insurance policy? My GerMan's is such that, should he die, it would pay off the house in full. Problem solved!

Personally speaking, I wouldn't sign any of this Ausländerin nonsense he is trying to sell you. He is either misinformed, or they are deceiving you.

See a lawyer on your own to get the facts straight.

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Posted

It doesn't sound like they are cutting the grand-daughter out, just the daughter in law. I can understand why the husbands parents might not want to give 1/4 house to their daughter in law in case she skips off but expecting her not to gain any part of the 1/2 house that her husband is paying off during their marriage while she is a stay home mom taking care of their mutual child is not really fair. The parents could do this another way. They could actually keep ownership of half the house. That way, if anything happens, they still own it and the half the husband is paying off remains the marital property.

I agree it is safer for a woman to have a career to be independent in case something happens. I don't agree that spouses should have secret accounts and hide money from each other unless they are planning a divorce already. A friend of mines wife does that and it has basically caused their marriage to shipwreck, one of the factors anyway.

I think you should ask your husband if he wants to be married to you or his parents. Tell him you are not signing anything, at least not until you discuss it with a lawyer. If you feel that you are better off getting divorced and re-married and that this would fix your problem in Indonesia, push that solution. Maybe he is afraid that you will not re-marry him if he gives you a divorce :) If he wants to own a house all by himself, not being married might be a better option. That way, each of you can have your separate incomes and own your own things without affecting each other but then you would not be able to be under his health insurance and you would need your own income.

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Posted

The Notar is going to insist that you are on the contract anyway. My wife is Chinese and we both did not even live here when we purchased a house her name and passport copy had to be on the contract.

"but how if in fact husband has that plan? To divorce me after this?" Relax you have no problems he would then buy the house after the divorce. Suggest his parents put the 50% on a 2nd mortgage this protects the in laws from hell, small mind part.

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Posted

If all you're worried about is securing your share of the house, then isn't the only concern who is (are) the legal owner(s) of the property? A couple of options that you could explore:

1/ Have two separate 50% ownership shares recorded in the Grundbuch? 50% you and hubby (joint 50/50, or 25/25 not sure how it would be worded) and the other 50% would be the in-laws jointly. If he wants you to keep the place for you and daughter should he pass away, the he can take out life insurance, with you as beneficiary, to cover the in-laws 50% which you can use to buy out the in-laws. If divorce, then I would think you still have a claim on half the equity of the 50% you own jointly with hubby.

2/ You're recorded as joint owner with hubby, 50/50, and hubby can take out life insurance for the share his parents are financing with them as beneficiaries which will to cover their "gift" in case he passes. In that scenario, they do not need to worry about you keeping the gift - intended only for their son and not to all three of you (alarm bells ringing here, by the way) - while you can either stay in the property and try to pay back the remaining loan, or you can sell and use the net proceeds as needed.

Either way, I can't imagine you signing what they appear to be proposing. The simple fact that you are in this position leads me to beleive you have a bigger problem than the ownership of the house. The golddigger thing may be a little harsh and I don't see anything wrong with stay at home husbands/wives who do not maintain an income. Each family/marriage has it's own circumstances and dynamics and levels of commitment or trust. I do, however, see a (potential) problem/risk with not having any income when your husband seems more concerned with providing financial security for his parents that for you and your child.

Good luck, though, and consult a lawyer!

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Posted

His parents will pay the 50% price of the house as a 'gift'

This looks like the most important point of all. His parents are giving him the money for a 50% down payment as a gift. Then they are out of the picture. A gift is a gift and their names won't be on the house. Looks pretty generous to me.

Then it is up to the OP to decide which papers she will sign under the advisement of a lawyer.

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Posted

That's really dumb.

I'd give you a star for this but there are considerations like language, age and "streetwise" of my aging mother to go through all these to get x amount. Don't forget she needs to pay the German inheritance tax i.e. deal with the tax authorities etc. Yes, you can say get a lawyer and executor to do all these but it's not like the property is worth millions. I'd rather give it to charity.

And I want to say that owning property here is different. Back home if you die, the house is paid for i.e. your mortgage/debt is cleared so whoever inherit your house can own or sell it without a penny to the bank or tax.

-1

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