Owing money to Sparkasse due to error

36 posts in this topic

Posted

Dear all Toytowners,

 

This may ramble and may be a repeat so I do apologise!

 

I lived in Germany for a year and a half. I then decided to move back to England. On my second to last day, I decided to exchange just over half of what euros I had left in my account into pounds. I did so, paid with my ec-karte and everything went through smoothly. I then decided (as I was nearby) to close my Sparkasse account and get it done instead of leaving it to the last day. I got into the bank about 30mins later. I was closing my account and the woman asked if I wanted the amount that was left in cash. I said yes and she finished closing the account and gave me the remaining euros. She told me I would get confirmation of the closed bank account at the end of the month. I then said my goodbyes to Germany and left to return to England.

 

Today I received all my mail from my landlady that I had received since mid-October (tax stuff from my job and whatnot) and I get a letter from Sparkasse telling me my payment to the exchange shop didn't go through and I need to pay them back by the end of October or they will send it to debt collection. I am now in a state of panic because I have only just received notification of this and I don't know where to send these euros to??? To Sparkasse or the debt collection agency*?? I haven't heard anything from my ex-landlady and I don't want to her involve her in this but I'm panicked this could blow back on her!! Should I even send the euros??

 

I can provide the details of the letter if it would help, would love some advice!!! Thanks in advance, may need a stiff drink after this!!!

 

*I'm not sure which debt collection agency it is, it just states in the letter that is what will happen. (at least what I understand from it!)

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Posted

Can you scan/photograph the letters and upload them?

If the files are larger than 250kb, use a free picture hosting web site like http://www.tinypic.com/ and just post the link to each picture here.

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Posted

This is the only letter I've received:

 

Verfügung mit Ihrer ec-Karte/SparkassenCard am 15.10.2012 in Höhe von EUR 400,52 bei EXCHANGE AG BERLIN

 

Sehr geehrte Frau Smith,

 

der o.a. Umsatz konnte nicht verbucht werden, da ihr Girokonto Nr. xxxxxxxxxx am 15.10.2012 geschlossen wurde.

 

Wir bitten Sie, den Betrag in Höhe von

EUR 400,52

bis zum 31.10.2012

auf das Konto Nr. xxxxxxxxxxxx

bei der Berliner Sparkasse

Bankleitzahl xxxxxxxxxxx

einzuzahlen bzw. zu überweisen.

 

Sollten Sie der Aufforderung nicht nachkommen, werden wir nach Ablauf der vorgenannten Frist ein Inkassounternehmen mit der Einziehung unserer gegen Sie gerichteten Forderung beauftragen und gleichzeitig bevollmächtigen, ihre Zahlungen entgegenzunehmen.

 

Ferner werden wir die fällige Forderung der SCHUFA mitteilen. Dies kann für Sie Folge haben, dass Sie für einen längeren Zeitraum sowohl bei uns als auch bei anderen der SCHUFA angeschlossenen deutschen Kreditinstituten keine Kredite erhalten und möglicherweise sogar keine neuen Konten eröffnen können.

 

MfG

Berliner Sparkasse.

 

(I had already typed it out to my pal!) thanks!

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Posted

Edit: Oops, that was 31.10.2012.

 

Just transfer 400.52€ into the bank account they specified immediately and hope they haven't yet passed it on to the collection agency.

 

If they have, you will know soon enough, as you will get another letter from the collection agency.

But do the transfer immediately.

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Posted

Even though it will be a month and half after the specified date? Thank you so much for the speedy response, my heartrate has slowed a little!! I thought that ec-karte payments were instant though?? Oh well good job I got paid today!! Thank you again :)

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Posted

Well my landlady hasn't sent any other mail so I hope it shall be ok!!

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Posted

 

I thought that ec-karte payments were instant though??

 

No, those currency transactions take some time.

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Posted

Call them, tell them that the money is on its way, ask if they have forwarded the claim to a collection agency.

 

Did you deregister and remove your name from the mailbox and doorbell like a good expat? If so any deliveries of court documents (court order, writ etc.) are invalid.

 

The banks seems to have known that you were leaving the country, so

 

 

  • why did they not ask for a forwarding address?
  • why did they send mail to an invalid former address?

 

These are points to be considered if the collection agency tries to hit you for fees as the bank did not make all due efforts to ensure that their letter/s reached you.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Please have all legal advice you receive here verified by a legal professional.

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Posted

 

Even though it will be a month and half after the specified date? ...

 

Believe me, they'll be so happy for having got their money back so easily that they won't be bothered by the slight delay. I would still write them a letter advising them that the money is on its way (if you can provide a receipt for the bank transfer then even better) and apologizing for the delay which was caused by their letter having had to be forwarded to your current address.

And no, EC-Karte transactions aren't in real time, leaving the bank exposed to the possibility of an overdraft (within the card's limits). That's why "böse Ausländer" (non-resident) like me cannot get one at all :D .

 

Ciao,

 

Dg800

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Posted

 

 

The banks seems to have known that you were leaving the country, so

 

 

  • why did they not ask for a forwarding address?
  • why did they send mail to an invalid former address?

 

These are points to be considered if the collection agency tries to hit you for fees as the bank did not make all due efforts to ensure that their letter/s reached you.

 

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Please have all legal advice you receive here verified by a legal professional.

 

Why oh why do you keep giving out such crappy advice, even if it's invariably followed by a bloody disclaimer? It is your duty, if you're moving either in or out of country, to inform the bank of your new address. They can't be expected to ask you because "they knew you were living the country". If you did not inform them of your intentions in writing, how the hell can they be expected to be aware of them? (Telling a bank teller while making idle conversation does not count!).

 

If you have an unpaid debt and then make yourself scarce, you will be held liable for any additional costs incurred by the debtor to locate and reach you! How the hell could you claim that "it's their fault" because they "did not make all due efforts to ensure that their letter/s reached you."? :rolleyes:

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Posted

 

Why oh why do you keep giving out such crappy advice, even if it's invariably followed by a bloody disclaimer?

 

Because she can delete it later and along with all associated posts to cover her tracks!!!

 

Disclaimer: I am not a mod, so I cannot delete other peoples' postings just because I feel like it.

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Posted

 

Because she can delete it later and along with all associated posts to cover her tracks!!!

 

First of all, what's with all the Sara bashing? Secondly, you've been here long enough to know that posts aren't deleted, they are removed. Actually not even that, they are simply not visible to us mere mortals. ;)

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Posted

 

First of all, what's with all the Sara bashing?

 

If you're referring to my post, I'm not bashing anyone, I just find her behavior extremely careless and dangerous. Consistently giving out advice on serious issues that may have legal and financial consequences for the OP, advice which basically simply amounts to made-up, utter bullshit is something which should not be condoned, even on an Internet forum, IMHO.

BTW, I'm not the only one who keeps calling her out on it.

 

Ciao,

 

Dg800

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Posted

Are you an expert in German law, DG800? Or work in a law office? Did you grow up in Bavaria? Have you ever even lived in Germany?

 

sarabyrd generally gives out very good advice. And she post-scripts it with a disclaimer stating that she's not a lawyer because it's against the law in Germany to give out legal advice if you don't have a law degree (with very few exceptions) - civil and criminal penalties can be imposed.

 

So I'd suggest you check yourself before you start talking about "made-up, utter bullshit" that "may have legal and financial consequences for the OP".

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Posted

if I was a mod I'd just make words, or maybe even just letters, disappear.

 

a la

 

Original:

 

Some Random Toytowner "I fancy going out and having a drink with me mates at the brass monkey..."

 

Modified:

 

Some Random Toytowner "I fancy me ass..."

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Posted

 

Are you an expert in German law, DG800? Or work in a law office? Did you grow up in Bavaria? Have you ever even lived in Germany?

 

All utterly irrelevant ad hominems. Yawn...

 

Fact is: if you change address, you need to inform all interested parties, much more so if the involved parties are people you owe money to. If you think you can move and than blame it on your creditors for "not having done everything necessary to find you", you're just deluding yourself. Any costs incurred in locating you will be added to your debt as part of the collection costs. You simply won't get away with it, in any jurisdiction. Period.

 

I still haven't seen this "good advice" you speak of from sarabyrd, only stuff that she makes up to try and look like the expert she isn't (in other words, a sciolist, of the worst kind). In common parlance, I believe that's usually referred to as "utter bullshit" (pardon my French).

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Posted

 

sarabyrd generally gives out very good advice. And she post-scripts it with a disclaimer stating that she's not a lawyer because it's against the law in Germany to give out legal advice if you don't have a law degree (with very few exceptions) - civil and criminal penalties can be imposed.

 

No. Rechtsberatungsgesetz is about geschäftsmäßig Rechtsberatung, which indeed is forbidden with some exceptions. Toytown is not a company, nor we are the the employees of it, so all messages on this forum are not legal advices and the disclaimer is useless.

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Posted

 

...the disclaimer is useless.

 

And so is her advice. Consistency through and through... :P

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Posted

WTG she works for a lawyer and as to bullshit why can you as an Ausländer not get an Ec card.I anausländer too and got one.Actually i have had dealings socially and finacially with Sarabyrd and she has a character of the highest integrity.Not like some i couls name on the Forum and that would now include you.The advice she gives are pointers to help someone in the right direction.

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