Lance Armstrong - self-confessed drug cheat

223 posts in this topic

Posted

I'm sad to see the once great Lance Armstrong exposed as a drug cheat and worse. The inspiration he provided countless people through is recovery from cancer and then going on to win numerous Tours, leaves a very bitter taste.

After the euphoria in the UK about Bradley Wiggins winning, and how he seems like such a good guy (with good taste in music), but are we destined to find skeletons in his closet in the future too? I hope not.

How far our expectations of Tour participants being clean, have fallen.

Thankyouplease

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm sad to see the once great Lance Armstrong exposed as a drug cheat and worse.

ACCUSED, not proven, and most of his accusers have indeed been unreliable and unbelievable.

Armstrong fought back, as he always does, with his lawyers attacking the report

Nope, no bias here. Lawyers prevent your words being used against you, especially in courtrooms like the kind Armstrong has repeatedly been in, and every time acquitted.

Like in June when his lawyers got the case concerning false charges against Navratilova opened through an FOIA request, clearly showing payments made to the accusers and to those who play along.

But that doesn't fit the narrative you want to push.

woof.

-2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Bad week for celebs who did a lot of work for charidee...

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No No kludgie. Jimmy Saville has been...."ACCUSED, not proven, and most of his accusers have indeed been unreliable and unbelievable."

I am sure it's all just a setup.

p.s. I clicked on the BadDoggie link just to see the old and out of date article from June and it starts....

Lane Armstrong and his attorneys have vowed to mount a vigorous defense against charges alleging performance drug use violations

So errrrr...also not much of a vow there either huh?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I just hope Smash and Nicey don't get pulled into all this.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Are any professional cyclist's clean? I would imagine not.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Only 3 Tour de France winners have not tested positive or been sanctioned due to doping related charges since 1998, 2 of them being in the last 2 years. Whether this means better sportsmanship or development of less detectable drugs is up for debate. So is it still cheating when everyone else is cheating as well?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

THAT has always been the argument. If it's endemic what do you do?

1. Keep losing bravely and stay clean.

2. Try to expose the dopers (good luck with that).

3. Give up your sport and retire as a loser.

4. Join the gang, take the drugs and lie lie lie for as long as you can (and then keep lying it seems)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I clicked on the BadDoggie link just to see the old and out of date article from June

A few weeks before the last Tour de France is "out of date"?!

So errrrr...also not much of a vow there either huh?

Can't really fight a court case that isn't brought up against you (and wasn't brought because his lawyers found out this exculpatory information that completely negates their charges.

You know that in his current court case before a federal judge, the judge is demanding answers from USADA, not Armstrong, right?

In a 2½-hour session, [u.S. (federal) District Judge] Sparks criticized USADA about the vagueness of its charges and wondered whether Armstrong would get a legitimate chance to defend himself against allegations that he used performance-enhancing drugs throughout his career.

Sparks also questioned USADA officials about why they don't turn their evidence over to the International Cycling Union, which has tried to wrest control of the Armstrong case from USADA in recent days.

emphasis mine

If he's guilty, so be it. He's being tried by a very jealous & driven media. All the evidence shows railroading and criminal behaviour on the part of his accusers (withholding any evidence -- especially when exculpatory --is a crime in the US).

Oh, and one more thing about June being "out of date": "The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency charged Armstrong in June, about four months after a federal grand jury investigation of the cyclist ended four months earlier without any indictments." Still insist it's irrelevant?

woof.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Now even former team mates are urging him to come clean.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Oh, and one more thing about June being "out of date"

Back in June it was all Landis and Hamilton. In the last 24 hours a ton of new information has been released onto the interwebby. Hence June is very old information in this game.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I refer Chocky to the link I provided earlier which describes the previously sealed Navratilova case in which her partner provided "evidence" that ended up publicising the very complicated system of treachery and payment via trust funds.

One of my circles of friends are a particular group of people in a particular country. They are all criminals, dealing in drugs and evasion of excise taxes. They are all guilty of multiple offenses and have violated various laws in my presence. I did not, and am not myself a criminal. Or are you a fan of guilt-by-association?

Anticipating the inevitable response that if I knew something they were doing was illegal I should have reported it, anything they did that could involve me in that way by requiring me to report knowledge of an act, they did after sending me out for some reason or another.

woof.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I think dope made the tour more interesting. Certainly has been dull lately. Those were great battles back in the day with Ullrich and Pantani. Of course you can't give Lance's vacated titles to any of those guys as everyone was doping. And while Lance was working his nut off in the off season, Pantani was doing cocaine and hookers while Jan was doing Ecstacy and booze. In a world where everybody doped, Lance trained the hardest and won because of it. But yeah they were all dopers and everyone knows it.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm not an expert in the field, but Armstrong was checked for doping hundreds of times: urine samples, blood samples, etc. Planned and unplanned checks. Never ever they found something, also on blood samples they put in the fridge for years and tested that with new methods nothing was found. Nobody can be that good right?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Does somebody stripped of a title return all the money they made when winning the title?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

One of my circles of friends are a particular group of people in a particular country. They are all criminals, dealing in drugs and evasion of excise taxes. They are all guilty of multiple offenses and have violated various laws in my presence. I did not, and am not myself a criminal. Or are you a fan of guilt-by-association?

If Armstrongs team was 99% cheats and he was the only 1 who wasn't (Do you honestly believe even if he was 100% clean that he didn't know everyone else in his team was cheating) he used their boosted performances and their knowledge etc to win.

Let's use another example you're playing cards with a partner and your partner is cheating which even though you're not cheating do you seriously believe that you're not in any way guilty?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Clean Lance could never have beaten a doping field. The drugs offer too much advantage. Look how they turned Floyd Landis from an injured bunny into an epic superman in just 24 hours. They all doped.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

In the report it says the reason Lance never tested positive was because his team's doping system was so sophisticated, they were way ahead of the testers and tests.

Readings the reports about the information USADA has just released, I find it mind blowing and aggravating that people are still saying that there is no proof that Lance cheated. If you think that this report doesn't offer serious and devastating proof of his cheating, then you either are not reading the reports, or still want to believe in Lance and ignore the uncomfortable truth. Well the dream is over. The stark reality is that not only is this guy a cheat, he is one of the biggest cheats of all time. Not only did he cheat himself, but he forced his teammates to cheat. Not for themselves, but for him - so he could win. Lance Armstrong has been shown to be a manipulating and self-serving bully. But anybody who followed the sport and his behavior wouldn't have needed a report for that piece of information.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Daniel please. Every frickin team used the same methods for the same ends. Every team, and every top rider did exactly what Lance did. Hell Dr. Fuentes had a revolving door in his office for all the top riders. How can you be the biggest cheater of alll time if everyone else cheats just as much?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

By winning the most competitions against the other ripped-to-the-tits cheats.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Dan I agree with you. They were all at it. But he was worse because his system was the best, and as Sara said, he beat them all.

By the way I am paraphrasing from USADA there. I think they would have a decent idea too.

Edit: Lance was rubbish in the mountains before his cancer, so him winning a Tour against a clean field is open to question itself.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Lemme ess-plain it for you non-Americans (and for most of the Yanks while I'm at it): The federal judge confronted & challenged USADA. This is not normal. American judges at every level save for the lowest and the highest (SCOTUS) do not normally get involved. They listen to the evidence presented and basically act as referees. In Armstrong's case the claims were so out there and the evidence so lacking that the judge got directly involved (risking an appellate smackdown and possible censure).

In the report it says the reason Lance never tested positive was because his team's doping system was so sophisticated, they were way ahead of the testers and tests.

And you're ignoring the fact that blood is held for years so that it can be tested later as new methods are discovered and proven. Sin of omission.

One of the links here goes to a giant pile of supposition that says, "Well, Lance came over to my apartment with his doc and I left and he was there alone for 45 minutes and that's maybe how long a blood transfusion [as in "blood-packing"] could maybe take."

I know a bit about the physical limits of phlebotomy. You can, with some machinery (which was never alleged to have been there), force a unit of blood into a person within 30 minutes using an 8GA needle, 10GA tops. But you're limited to the veins that you can cram one of those fucking sewer pipes into, every one of which is going to be checked before the race. Furthermore, there's that bubble in the middle of a gravity infusion (Control-a-Flow or Lever-lock) which in the case of blood, has a superfine filter that further slows the maximum possible flow. If Armstrong was packing, he has the giganticist veins in the strangest of places which are also stronger than fucking steel.

Using a tiny vein (the kind the coke-shooting pole dancers favour, like between the toes or inside the fingers) means no needle larger than 18GA, and that would need more than an hour to get a full unit of blood in. And on the fingers, would be visible. And most likely cause bruising, so bust someone at any other point on the body.

I also have some first-hand knowledge about EPO (epopoetin). Even when given in a sub-dermal wash as opposed to IV, the needle leaves marks.

Readings the reports about the information USADA has just released

The same USADA which has been ordered to Show Cause by a federal judge? For releasing unsubstantiated reports?

I find it mind blowing and aggravating that people are still saying that there is no proof that Lance cheated.

Other than, you know, every fucking courtroom he's been in.

They were all at it. But he was worse because his system was the best

...

Edit: Lance was rubbish in the mountains before his cancer, so him winning a Tour against a clean field is open to question itself.

So he shouldn't have won against all the others who were also cheating because maybe he was cheating just like them and still beat a field of cheaters?

The Stig beat me when he had a 911 and I had a Kia. Then I got the same 911 The Stig had and so we raced again on a level playing field. And he beat me again. HE ONLY BEAT ME BECAUSE I DROVE A KIA!

I have no horse in this race but you guys are no better than Faux News and the Daily Hate Mail.

woof.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I don't understand on what basis you think his system was the best. All the top riders were using cutting edge treatments, otherwise they couldn't keep one step ahead of the testers. It was only because of a whistle-blower that Fuentes was taken down, along with all the top riders. It's not clear to me what treatments Lance could have been using that the Fuentes "patients" couldn't.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now