Krankenkasse registering anmeldung form

19 posts in this topic

Posted

Hello. I'm living for 4 months now in Berlin, and I just found a job. The previous 4 months I have been without any kind of Health Insurance(neither EHIC card) and reading some posts on this site I've been noticed that at the time of registering with a Krankenkasse they will charge me for those months according to the date I've got in my Anmeldung in Berlin.

 

1. As I've just changed my address and i'm going to get a new Anmeldungbestätigung in the next days, will the Krankenkasse be able to notice that I've lived in Berlin the 4 month before, and back charge me for that time? Should I make the abmeldung for the previous address before?

2. In case of being forced to pay, this backpaying amount should be a percentage of what I 've earned, but as I've earned nothing until know, does anyone know how much it would be?

3. Would I need to pay it straight away or would they discount it from my first salary?

 

Thanks in advance

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Posted

1. Yes, you cant really hide effectivly in Germany. Maybe you can lie about being new to Berlin and they wont notice immediately, but its not likely to work out and most likly opens you up to all kinds of legal liabilities (think fraud). You will almost certainly end up paying.

2. There is a minimum payment, I dont know for sure but I think its something like 140 per month

3. It never happened to me, but from my memories of other people I tihnk you will be sent a bill and be expected to pay within a reasonable time. You can probably negotiate the end of the month so you get paid.

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Posted

1. if your new "Anmeldung" lists the former Berlin address, the Kasse will want to know how long you have been living here, under what residence status and how you have been insured. Failure to have proper health insurance set up for your time of residence will then indeed trigger the back-charges. However without extending the coverage back-wards, too. So you'll be paying what you would have had to pay if you had set up your insurance right away without the benefits.

2. as was said above, you'll have to anticipate around 147 EUR per month if you were without income AND were not registered as freelancer/self-employed. If you were the latter, you'll be facing 322 EUR p.m. and change

3. the always have to allow you to pay in installments - up to 6 months should not be a problem.

 

Cheerio

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Posted

A question: what if the newly registered foreign resident is insured in his home country? Do the back charges apply then as well?

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Posted

Oh yes, Loewenherz - foreign insurance is irrelevant. Who cares here if you´re legally insured in Japan or Australia, for example? Mind you, if you´re newly registered and get legally insured, it´s not an issue. Many people coming here are not aware of that or, indeed, of the difficulties of getting health insured legally. And that is THE issue.

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Posted

Oh, thanks for the info! Is it also irrelevant if the person in question is legally insured in EU, the insurance being covered on the account of last job (so not private insurance, but some state/employer deal.. sorry, don't know the details nor can explain them :( but hope the picture is more or less clear?)

 

A friend of mine is looking for a job and to do the right thing she has registered here, at my address, right at the beginning of this month. She still hasn't found anything and her health insurance runs out end of this month. I guess the best option is to de-register and get private insurance in her home country, then register again once she finds a job. In my opinion she is basically a tourist till she finds anything - she hasn't established herself here yet and has the option to go back (which is just a bus drive away) if she can't find any job. As tourist she should be covered by her home country insurance. Am I right, at least as the de-registering and private insurance goes?

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Posted

Too complicated for me, Loewenherz!!! :D

So, your friend is legally insured in the EU..EU citizen? Why does her health insurance run out this month???? If it´s public, it can´t run out as far as I know. Why would she need to get private insurance in her home country? Which country is that? :) She would normally be able to use an EHIC card if she´s a tourist: correct.How can she be publicly insured, then not much longer, then maybe get private for a bit and then come back?

 

You´ve lost me there!

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Posted

Ah John, thanks so much for your patience so far!

I'll write this explanation hoping that it will last a little bit longer.. Sorry for the unclear picture above.. I'm just trying to find a solution for a friend of mine.

 

Here is the story:

My friend, Polish girl - she finished her job in Poland and came here to live her dream and find a decent paying job in Germany, in logistics (she already worked in that area 5 years). She is publicly insured due to her last job - as she's no longer working this insurance expires at the end of this month. To prolong it she would need to register as unemployed. She couldn't do that before she left, as her last official day was after she arrived here and apparently she couldn't register with the employment office before actually finishing her job.

 

So, she stays with me while she is looking for a job here, and, to do the correct thing, she registered with KVR under my address (she also is going to go to Agentur für Arbeit and see whether they can help her in any way.)

 

I'm just wondering what's the story gonna be with her health insurance once she gets a job and actually moves here, finds a flat and settles etc. Is her German Krankenkasse going to back-charge her to the date when she first registered here? I would say that they shouldn't, as so far she is publicly insured in her EU home country, and as far as I'm concerned she's still a tourist here - living out of a suitcase, staying with me, with the option of just packing her stuff and go to her permanent residence in Poland if she can't find a job (touch wood!) The insurance card she has is valid here (EHIC as far as I know) and she can use the "normal" medical services here (GP, emergency etc.)

 

So far so good - but what about next month, when her public insurance runs out? Should she go home and register as unemployed, then come here and basically wait till the Polish equivalent of Agentur für Arbeit will cut their services - and she won't be there? That would not be right and in my opinion better option would be private insurance... or wouldn't it? Or is it another option altogether?

 

There are 2 issues here to cover: back-charges but also health insurance itself. Our biggest concern isn't even GP but emergency hospital stay.

 

Unfortunately she's never worked nor lived here and so almost certainly isn't entitled to any state benefits here.

 

I hope it's bit clearer now? Many thanks for your time so far and I'd very much appreciate any of your thoughts!

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Posted

It sounds to me like she would not be able to take the route you linked to John, since she left Poland without having registered as unemployed...

Since she is now registered as living with Loewenherz, it would be difficult for her now to register herself as unemployed in Poland, oder?

 

The options that I can see are either for the two of them to marry (!), or for her to take on the first job she can find that pays enough to also cover health insurance (not a €400 basis job), and to continue to look for a really good job in her free time.

 

Of course, I am no expert when it comes to insurance, but as a lay-person I can only see these two options - maybe John knows of more?

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Posted

Personal experience: I left my previous country of residence keeping my EHIC card for the time being. Came to Germany, went through a few hoops with private insurers for a couple of weeks to no success; I finally ended up signing with TK (public insurance).

TK wanted the E101 (hope I'm not mistaken, might be S1 now) form from my previous insurer, my Meldebestaetigung (registration form here) and then backdated (and backcharged, of course) my insurance contract to the date of my registration in Germany. As I had a job, the cost was calculated based on my salary - in the above case, I guess she would be charged the 140-something minimum.

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Posted

What about if she simply deregistered, went back to Poland, registered as unemployed, got Polish health insurance, came back as a tourist and only registered again if and when she finally found a job? That way she would get a new "Meldebesatetigung" with which she could sign up for public insurance, wouldn't she?

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Posted

Thanks to all above for your answers!

 

Well, my friend would certainly get Polish state insurance if she registered as unemployed.. Problem is that this insurance is part of the deal she would get from the Polish Employment Office (let say PL EO) and is subject to the pre-condition that she is actively looking for work in Poland (same as in Germany). So if she registered with the PL EO and never showed up there again (being in Germany) - that would cause her insurance to cease very soon. And additionally - maybe the fact of her being here would even invalidate the insurance all together - meaning that when she gets a medical problem Germany while she is supposed to look for a job in PL - she might find out that the insurance is not valid after all.

 

All in all private insurance seems the best option.. unless...

 

My friend went to Agentur für Arbeit yesterday and talked to a very sympathetic Beamte there. Apparently, as she's worked 5 years already in PL, she would be entitled to unemployment benefits including health insurance as soon as she has worked legally in Germany for at least 1 day (and then did all the forms exchange - I think E103?) That's new to me but sounds like a good option, too, for the time she'll need to find a proper job. The Unemployment money wouldn't be more than a pittance, considering the wages in PL of which she would be getting just a fraction of, anyway, but sorting the insurance would help a lot!

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Posted

Would you be able to employ her on a 450 euro plus job sh :) ort term, Loewenherz? Just a wild early Saturday evening thought!

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Posted

Thanks for the idea John! I myself won't be able to do it, nor any close friend, but I will look around who in the wider friends' circle could do it... and of course we keep hoping that she will find a long term job soon :)

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Posted

I have a crazy idea. Instead of trying various schemes to circumvent the system, why doesn't she try following the system designed for EU citizens wanting to look for work in another EU country? She can go home, register as unemployed, and they apply to transfer her benefits here for three months. She then comes back in a few weeks with the correct docs (I think it is a U2) and registers with the Agentur für Arbeit who'll pay her unemployment insurance benefits and cover her health insurance for three months while she looks for work here. Since she is only a short bus ride away, she can easily come back if she receives an interview in the next few weeks.

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Posted

Well, the whole idea started as a month's trip. You shoudl be able to find a job in a month, right? Not as a VIP, but one you already have 5 years experience in. So you come here and the calls are coming in, and there are interested companies out there, and things look good! ..but everything's slow, companies just take their time and suddenly you realise you're running out of time, at least as far as your insurance goes. And time is money.

 

Short bus ride (everything is relative! so is probably the length of a 12h bus drive) means admitting that this 1 month's job quest could turn into something longer... much longer? Who knows. And of course the hope is there that THIS week one of those calls - which keep coming all the time - will turn into something substantial.

 

I don't know what my friend will do, really. I just wanted to know what are her options. But at the end she will decide, of course :)

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Posted

 

Well, the whole idea started as a month's trip. You shoudl be able to find a job in a month, right? Not as a VIP, but one you already have 5 years experience in.

 

Considering that logistics is not one of the Engpassberufen in Germany, I think one month was rather optimistic.

 

 

means admitting that this 1 month's job quest could turn into something longer... much longer? Who knows. And of course the hope is there that THIS week one of those calls - which keep coming all the time - will turn into something substantial.

 

As long as she makes sure her German number will work in Poland, she won’t miss much by going back to sort everything out.

 

BTW, how well does she speak German? Is she only looking in Munich?

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Posted

My friend's German is fabuloso :) Really. And she's found a job!!! I'm so happy for her :)

So at least this problem has resolved itself. Thanks again for all the comments and advice.

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