Cable vs DSL internet (sans phone line)

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Posted

In some facets I'm quite computer illiterate and since I'll soon need to organise an internet connection for my new apartment (move in 2-3 months time), thought I'd get edumacated via Toytown. I'm not sure how fast I'd want - I have stopped downloading big movie files etc due to friends of mine getting stung (badly), but assume at least 16000kb/s "theoretical" bandwidth would be a minimum goal, though I suppose getting a higher speed would be future-proofing to an extent? Locking into a 2yr contract for me is no problem, and I'd rather NOT have to rent out a landline phone as my mobile is sufficient for all of my phoning purposes. A wireless connection (i.e. with router-modem?) would be a must, as we'll have 2 laptops and 1 smartphone between us. We don't currently own a router or modem and I guessed about 20€-25€/month would be a good price?

I read that with DSL, you'll generally get higher speeds the closer you live to the phone company's central office, so if anyone has a link showing locations of such offices/distribution centers, that could be vital to my decision making (moving to Moosach, Munich). How close would close enough be to be better than cable (as far as speeds and frequency of drop-outs)?

I read that Cable is typically cheaper than DSL?

Here's the first/only deal I looked for as a Cable connection: http://www.kabeldeutschland.de/internet-telefon/internetanschluss-16.html

Is either of these better than the other? Or are the provider, location and other factors more important?

I've been told to stay well clear of Alice, and that MNET provides good service (albeit not the cheapest). If anyone can recommend any other service (which are good or to steer clear of) that would be great, keeping in mind the constraints/desires above :)

Cheers! ;)

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Posted

All providers offering DSL over the phone line will offer pretty much the same speed as they use the same piece of wire into your home which will be directly related to the distance from the exchange, except for VDSL services (25Mb/s and above) which rely on connections to equipment on the street, where available. Much though you don't need it most of these providers will bundle a phone into the package too. All providers offer you the chance to enter your address on their website to estimate the services you can receive. (Telekom for example)

Cable is a little cheaper and can be faster (up to 100Mb/s) but you need to be sure your new home has a connection to the cable service in the first place.

You will get a range of comments both good and bad about every provider. Some are a little cheaper, some offer better deals, some have terrible service, and some you don't really see the true side of until you have a problem to fix.

Look for attractive startup deals that include equipment (wireless router) or discount for signing up online.

Remember to allow good time for your connection to be installed - 3-6 weeks would not be unusual (not for cable), especially for non Deutsche Telekom providers. Knowing the phone number of a previous tenant often makes things easier as the line into your new home can be easily identified.

Bear in mind that a decent internet speed can also offer you TV and content streaming services too.

Don't worry about downloading movies - that's not what your friends got stung for. They got stung for uploading.

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Posted

thanks for the response YSL6 - good info

Telekom seems to have just what I want at just under 10€/month for DSL (link), which is half what I expected to pay, and is only a 12 month contract rather than 2 years which is a little more flexible again.

Unlimited surfing without speed reduction with no service fee - presumably this deal doesn't come free with a router but I think my brother in law has a spare one lying around anyway. Hopefully the bigger companies can ensure a faster connection time.

Actually I might try to contact the current tenants to see what they have set up, to see if I can't simply "overtake" their deal (simply a change of name and credit card details) to avoid delays & downtime etc. If they happen to be paying more than I wanted to for some premium service then perhaps I might even be able to overtake it anyway and simply downgrade the service (slower speed, smaller download quota, drop the Festnetz line rental etc)...

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Posted

Erm... you misunderstood that link. It's 9.99€ for internet access on the assumption you have a DSL connection already available, and there is a cost for that too. What you need is on of the "complete packages"

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Posted

ohhh, so what if the current tenants have a DSL connection/contract with DTelekom - can I somehow use this connection to simply pay the 10€/month and drop the phone line (if they have one)?

Is something similar also possible if they have a connection with a different provider?

finding it hard to snag a deal where a Festnetz/landline is excluded, i.e. set up for those only contactable via mobile phone & internet.

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Posted

No. You pay a monthly fee for the phone/DSL line into your home then another for the internet access over the DSL line. They don't necessarilly need to be from the same supplier, and in the early days of DSL often didn't but now you get a better deal if you take everything as a package.

Given that the medium you are using to access the internet is a phone line in the first place there are not many packages that don't include the phone connection in the deal. To be honest, it's not a bad thing to have in case you mobile phone does not work, batters is flat or is lost (think emergency!). Clearly you have no interest in using the phone, so can avoid packages that include flat rate telephony. Bear in mind, however that to make calls, especially abroad, then a landline phone is MUCH cheaper, unless you use VoIP on your mobile, which itself is not available with many providers. When I'm in range of my home WLAN my mobile logs into the connection with VoIP so any calls that I make, even with the mobile at home are MUCH cheaper.

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Posted

You can also check out Verivox for a comparison of the deals and also a bonus for signing a contract. E.g. if you sign up with Kabel Deutschland through Verivox you will receive a 80 € cash-back.

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Posted

The exchange in Moosach is next to the S-Bahn. But distance shouldn't be much of a problem in Munich.

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Posted

Can anyone tell me how much the monthly fee is? or does it vary depending on who your phoneline provider is?

Just got the contract from the owners and it states:

"Da eine Hausantennenanlage/Haussatellitenanlage/Hauskabelfernsehanlage vorhanden ist, darf der Mieter keine Antenne, Satellitenschüssel oder andere Empfangseinrichtung außerhalb der Wohnung anbringen, insbesondere auch nicht auf dem Balkon oder auf bzw. unter dem Dach.

Dem Mieter ist bekannt, dass für das Wohngebäude mit der Deutschen Telekom AG der Anschluss an das Breitbandkabelnetz vereinbart ist. Die monatlichen Gebühren trägt der Mieter."

...So it looks like Deutschen Telekom AG has the line to all apartments, and I can choose whether to go with them or someone else for internet (+ maybe phoneline).

Thanks for the Verivox Link, bund. Looks like the only non-phoneline for Cable-Internet deal available is via Kabel Deutschland which averages out to 21.56€/month over 24months (19.90 for the monthly premium and a once-off 40€ connection fee).

Since this is about the same as other deals which INCLUDE a phone connection (e.g. also with Kabel Deutschland), I suppose it's the line rental cost which could determine whether we go cable or not.

sorry for the n00b question, but if you have Cable Internet, does the phone line run through your Cable Modem or simply plug directly into the phone line socket in the wall?

Any idea whether it's better to buy a separate router (to connect to the modem provided), or alternatively buy a separate hybrid Modem-Router to reduce the clutter and minimise the number of hardware/troubleshooting problems?

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Posted

Bear in mind that most companies show the price for the first year only, and the price for the next year ("danach") is written in small print.

Kabel Deutschland is a good deal, they charge 18 euros for the first year and then 25 euros (minimum contract duration is 2 years). See price comparison here:

http://www.kabeldeutschland.de/internet-telefon/internet-und-telefon-16.html

However, if you choose them, it is good to know:

1. They automatically subscribe you for Sicherheitspaket, this is some antivirus software shit. If you don't unsubscribe 4 weeks in advance, this will cost you 4 euros each month.

2. Not only they don't speak any English, but they refuse to answer any e-mails in English (including the request to unsubscribe from Sicherheitspaket shit).

3. http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=146933 (cannot confirm this myself)

sorry for the n00b question, but if you have Cable Internet, does the phone line run through your Cable Modem or simply plug directly into the phone line socket in the wall?

You need to have a cable TV socket, which is used to connect you modem. The modem has two phone sockets, so you can have two phone lines. Phone socket in the wall is not used at all.

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Posted

thanks yourkeau - good info.

If I were to opt for a Kabel-Deutschland deal WITH a landline connection via this deal here (LINK), which has an Effektivpreis of 21,98 Euro/Monat over the 2yr deal, does that include line rental or not?

If not, can anyone tell me how much the monthly phone line rental fee is? Is it the same for DSL as it is for Cable internet, or can it vary depending on who your phoneline provider is?

The place I'll be moving to has Cable-connection to all of the 36 apartments within the complex but I think the current tenants have DSL hooked up, so I might try contacting them to see if their deal suits us and simply try to move it into our names, but either way it'd be good to know how much extra a phone line rental costs (if at all)!

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Posted

Before you sign any contract with kabel Deutschland, you might want to check if

They even offer service in your area. Just because the flats have CATV doesn't

Means they are connected correctly to get the service your after.

KD are also good at saying they can provide service when they really can't.

So check with your neighbors if they are actually receiving an KD internet

Service before you sign anything.

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Posted

A couple points

If I were to opt for a Kabel-Deutschland deal WITH a landline connection

Kabel Deutschland won't give you a landline, you'll get a voip phone connection running over your cable modem.

does that include line rental or not?

For cable, you don't need to pay for a dsl line.

If not, can anyone tell me how much the monthly phone line rental fee is? Is it the same for DSL as it is for Cable internet, or can it vary depending on who your phoneline provider is?

You are making things too complicated. You need to get yourself a package deal that includes everything. For cable, it will do that anyways, for dsl, any dsl package will contain the price of the dsl line as well.

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Posted

Kabel Deutschland won't give you a landline, you'll get a voip phone connection running over your cable modem.

Yep. But for the user it works like a normal phone line, no difference. And you get it for no charge, with free calls to all German landline numbers (excluding 0-900-xxx, of course).

AFAIK, DSL providers also give a landline for free if you have internet from them.

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Posted

ah ok this clears some things up. In Australia I think I (everyone) payed maybe $30AUD per month just to rent the landline. On top of this I paid $40/month for internet and to be able to USE the landline - all calls made are then charged on top of this amount (I had DSL then).

But if in Germany there is no other ongoing fee/payments to worry about after the €20-30 monthly subscription costs, then that sounds like a pretty good deal - both for Cable or DSL.

At an effective price of under 22€/month for 2years with Cable (KD) I can get unlimited internet (@32.000kb/s) and a Telefon-Flatrate in das deutsche Festnetz with a free Modem thrown in.

In comparison, the best deal for DSL I can find is about 10€ more per month, or 240€ more over a 2 year contract.

Last question:

When going through the Verivox website to make the order, one field asks:

Übernahme des Anschlusses*

  • Ich habe meinen Anschluss bereits gekündigt.

  • Ich habe meinen Anschluss noch nicht gekündigt (Voraussetzung für Rufnummernmitnahme).

...Is this asking about my current connection (Anschluss) setup or the connection at the place I'll be moving to, where this deal will be set up? I don't actually have an internet/phone line connection in my current apartment, and from the wording I assume it's talking about "meine"/MY connection (non-existant), so I guess I'll tick the first option?

I shall give KD a call to confirm they can hook me up - Thanks for all your help!!

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Posted

@barry: if you are lucky, your building doesn't have KD, but instead serviced by KMS (Kabel und Medien Service) who also offer high-speed cable internet through their service called cablesurf. That's the case in my building, and I'm very glad it is...because it's quite hassle-free, cheap, fast as hell, and there's no contract whatsoever beyond the initial 3 months. Oh, and they chuck in a free landline also (to which you can get a flatrate for €10/mth if you make a lot of phone calls on your landline)

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Posted

@barry - don't forget to cancel the "safety" package (if you don't need it) - its free for the first 3 months and thereafter €3.98/month. If you also want WLAN functionality you are looking at a further min €2/month

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Posted

Thanks for the tips DS and enview - I'll be sure to cancel the safety package in the 3rd month.

WLAN is a must but I'm not sure whether I should "rent" a router from KD for €2/month (ongoing until I cancel the contract with them, and I'd have to return it) - it might be more cost effective to just buy one outright that I can keep rather than have to give back?

No idea which one(s) from the thousands available would be what I'm after. I suppose ideally I find the same brand/model that KD use on sale online, to be sure of no compatability issues and in case I have to call them to troubleshoot, they can refer to their provided Router type?

They offer 2 types of routers:

WLAN Router: CVE - 30360 = 2,00 €/Monat

WLAN Router: FRITZ!Box Fon WLAN 6360 = 5,00 €/Monat

If I want to use a landline through KD, I assume I'll need the FRITZ!Box option and NOT the CVE-30360, which has the bonus of also working as a router AND a modem? Though if I went and purchased one of these outright/online, and receive the standard modem on top of this, I'm guessing the standard modem will just be collecting dust in my Keller?

Though I just read on wiki that

most models since 2006 also have a USB port to connect a harddrive, memorystick, or printer, for local file or printer sharing. The USB port may also be used to connect a second modem, e.g. for UMTS/3GSM/HSPA.

... but what advantage would I get of connecting the second/standard router to the Fritzbox?

And can I connect a USB-Hub to the USB connection to be able to connect multiple devices to the network (printer, modem(?), external HDD)?

Arse-end of the Fritzbox looks like this:

FRITZBox_6360_Cable.png

and looks to price at about 200€ a pop, which would pay for itself after a 2yr contract (in comparison to the 5€/month rental, considering I'd KEEP the purchase but not the rental)

Would I be better off with an analogue, ISDN/ISDN-TK, or Fritz!Fon (MT-D or MT-F) telephone? Would any of those choices provide a better call quality? I don't currently own a Festnetz telephone either so am in the market for one of these too.

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Posted

EDIT: Just stumbled upon a forum(in german) about people buying a Fritzbox outright in combination with KD

sounds like buying one outright, even if it's the same model, won't be compatible with your cable connection, so I'd have wasted 200€! Or did I misread some of those posts? Looks like I'd instead have to fork out the fiver per month extra for the FritzBox Modem-Router if I went with them.

Though I just had a squiz at Cablesurf.de as suggested by deep_schismic and they look pretty good too. their equivalent of a Fritzbox costs only 1,95€/month extra to rent, so the effective cost with them would be only 16,20€ (compared to 22€ with KD) for a 2yr contract at 20.000kb/s* speeds!

Das zur Internetnutzung benötigte Kabelmodem können Sie bequem mieten – Klassik Kabelmodem für nur 0,95 €/Monat oder Wireless-Modem für 1,95 €/Monat.

I suppose the Hausverwaltung at my new apartment complex will be the only one who can tell me whether the apartment is hooked up by KD or by KMS? Or should the providers themselves be able to tell me if I call them up?

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Posted

KD will supply you (if you don't otherwise state) a modem to which you connect your computer & ANALOG Telephone (ie that is your landline) to.

There is nothing to stop you from connecting your own router as long as it has the same functionality of the routers that KD supply you, it is just a matter of configuring it.

The significant difference between the two that KD supply is that with the Fritzbox you can connect ISDN telephones to it.

Don't quite see a reason for connecting a mobile capable modem in a households, maybe for business purposes if the land connection fails.

Yes, you can by all means connect a hub serving multiple devices to the USB connection.

Call quality is dependent upon the quality of service that KD supplies for VoIP, and I guess they offer the same kind of quality that you get from other DSL providers (I'm with 1&1 via my in house telphone connection, and have had no quality issues using analog devices). I guess they offer ISDN capablities for people that require telephone services that an analog devices can't/don't support.

So I hope your questions have been answered.

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Posted

Sorry barry, you have interpreted that correctly, I has said yes you could you use any other modem as long as it had the same functionality, just going there on my own experience (I had cancelled my 1&1 contract to take out a new (cheaper) 1&1 contract. I told them not to send me new hardware as I would carry on using my current modem (with 1&1 you don't have to send the modem back when the contract ends). My connection was activated, I changed user name & password and got straight on in to the internet. Activating the new telephone numbers was a bit tricky, but I got that done).

Don't need to ask your HW, just use the "verfugbarkeits prüfung" - availability check. My TV connection is run by KMS, but I'd have no problem getting a KD Internet connection if I wanted it, The TV program would be still be run by KMS.

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Posted

My TV connection is run by KMS, but I'd have no problem getting a KD Internet connection if I wanted it, The TV program would be still be run by KMS.

@enview: are you sure about that? My understanding was that there is one sole cable provider to a particular building, as there is one node for the building...how would it make sense for another cable provider to come long and then just either piggyback onto another company's network? KMS and KD don't share networks do they?? :blink:

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Posted

thanks for the replies guys - I've decided to go with cablesurf as I found out via the KD website that the property is not serviced by KD, rather, by Cablesurf. Also the Cablesurf prices beat KD hands down, and the thread on TT for Cablesurf has mostly/all happy customers. Stores in Munich are a bonus too.

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Posted

@DS Dead sure, KD would be "piggy backed" via KMS, giving me just Internet via TV cable. I know, sounds silly, but German Legislation demands this, something to do with breaking monopolies.

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Posted

Ahh.... Is it just me or is run completely different from the US? It seems to be a little odd.

So I am moving in two days to Erkrath. I need internet obviously. However, the building already has a deal with a cable company for television. So we do not need tv. In today's day world I do not really see a need for a landline telephone in my apartment. We already have a cell phone. So this is not needed.

Is there a way to just simply get internet? Also what do think of Unity Media and Vodafone?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

And is it true that it takes 2 to 3 weeks to get anything installed? I understand a week. But longer than that is crazy.

Another note is we are not sure if we will stay in this part of Germany. It all depends on where I find a job. Granted we would like to live in this area for awhile, but we have to go where the money is "so to speak." Thus, are there national companies that provide larger areas?

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