Proof of Language Proficiency Exception

43 posts in this topic

Posted

I am glad it worked out for you. At times one's luck seems to depend on the particular officer that takes up your question.

Although my situation was slightly different, I will share it fwiw:

When I wanted to apply for citizenship I approacehd KVR to tell them that I had passed A1 equivalent of German from Goethe Institut in my country. I was told that the certificate was too long ago to count. The immigration officer and also someone at the Goethe Institut here said surely my German must have improved since I lived here the past many years. I said that is exactly why I shouldn't be made to sit the exam again. That didn't wash, I had to take the exam again, which was rather easy, but all that running around and paying for the exam etc seemed a waste.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thank you for this info!!! I am a US citizen and my wife is an Indian citizen. The guy at the Rathaus said she must learn basic German. We told him that from the German embassy in India we learned that she is exempt. He asked where does it say that. We said on the embassy website, to which he said maybe it is a rule there but not here. Now I will print this out and show him. Is this the most official source?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If he merely said she must "learn basic German" that is fine. Did he mean or did you get him to categorically say that she must PASS A1 level German exam? It is meaningless for him to suggest that the rules for citizenship application depend on your location or of your spouse.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well, that is true for just landing... and the first 3 years. But when you get your upgrade to to the niederlassungserlaubnis after 3 years, you'll need it.

Honestly, it's really not a big deal. A1 is easy peasy.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I agree, German A1 is incredibly easy and doesn't take much time! And it will help her somehow integrate more smoothly here than knowing no German at all.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It was a requirement for something because she got a document called "Verpflichtung zur Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs" and it said that since she cannot communicate in German at the basic level, she is required "to do this"... but we are not sure exactly what. We are in Germany for 3 years and no longer. By the way, we find learning new languages and cultures interesting and we took a Grundkurs in basic German (46 hr course). Since we have a baby, we just want to learn at our pace and out of our interest, not due to a requirement.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The Verpflichtung means she is required to enroll in and attend an integration course as well as pass the B1 exam. There are also courses for parents that include childcare. What is the problem?

-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

thanks for your reply. You are right, Verpflichtung means that, but I am guessing that they gave a very informative document, out of which the requirement for her is only A1. The residence permit is only for 2 years (which we hope to extend 1 more year) so I don't think they expect B1. Anyway I'll clarify all this at the Rathaus next week.

I didn't know there are courses with childcare. That's very considerate. But anyway, I think we'll take the exemption for now so that no requirement hangs over our heads.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

One more question, please. I was looking for further proof of this exemption ("Your spouse is a citizen of Australia, Israel, Japan, Canada, the Republic of Korea, New Zealand or the United States of America") elsewhere.

I looked at AufenthG 30 (Ehegattennachzug), here: http://dejure.org/gesetze/AufenthG/30.html

Does the following exemption listed on this website say the same thing?

Satz 1 Nr. 2 ist für die Erteilung der Aufenthaltserlaubnis unbeachtlich, wenn... der Ausländer wegen seiner Staatsangehörigkeit auch für einen Aufenthalt, der kein Kurzaufenthalt ist, visumfrei in das Bundesgebiet einreisen und sich darin aufhalten darf.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Thanks so much engelchen. You are right, there is a lot of confusion, partly because I have not provided complete information. I would have, but I don't understand things myself.

I guess what I am most interested in is, whatever language requirement was made for my wife, she is exempt because I am a US citizen, right? It says quite clearly, I would think.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I guess what I am most interested in is, whatever language requirement was made for my wife, she is exempt because I am a US citizen, right?

No. Those are only the requirements for entry (see §44a regarding Verpflichtung).

She would need to prove that she has "little need for integration" (usually university degree in an area where she could easily find work without German).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No. Those are only the requirements for entry.

She would need to prove that she has "little need for integration" (usually university degree in an area where she could easily find work without German).

You are right. I read it more carefully. What about what it says in AufenthG 30?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Jontytyt,

See §8.3, §44, and §44a AufenthG.

Your wife needs to find herself a course.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I will update in a couple of days after I visit the Rathaus. I hope an exemption will apply.

-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

How about this situation:

So I am here 4 years now. Canadian citizen, and last year I got married to a German. I been working here and my working visa allows me to work for other companies but no free lance yet.

When we went to the local office the officer said I need to pass an A1 test. I am about to renew my working visa again for the 3-4th time so I find this a bit strange.

Maybe I do need this, or is this guy just wrong?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Every immigration worker seems to tell a different story. I was told that, despite being American and having advanced degrees in languages (two of the supposed exemptions), I needed to take the A1. I didn't want to, but I went and took it and got a "Sehr Gut" (not bad, huh?)

When I brought the certificate from the A1 to the immigration office, the worker told me I needed to take an integration course next. I have a toddler at home and we haven't been able to get him into a Kitta yet. It's damn near impossible and we're on tons of waiting lists. I also teach language classes at night, so I really don't have time to take a course that meets 5 days a week for 3 hours or more. So in my A1 German, I politely asked "Soll ich, oder muss ich?" (This is my favorite German phrase now!) She said, "Sie sollen" and honestly looked disappointed that I'd figured out the trick.

As the original post implies, it seems that the workers in the immigration office don't always have a handle on the up-to-date rules. This is why you need to investigate as much as possible and very politely question just about everything they want you to do.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

How about this situation:

So I am here 4 years now. Canadian citizen, and last year I got married to a German. I been working here and my working visa allows me to work for other companies but no free lance yet.

When we went to the local office the officer said I need to pass an A1 test. I am about to renew my working visa again for the 3-4th time so I find this a bit strange.

Maybe I do need this, or is this guy just wrong?

Yes, you DO need to pass A-1. I am an American, married to a German. It is required for residency. I am currently taking the course. A-1 is all that is required for language, plus an Integration course, which is part of the program. Germany gives plenty of time to complete it. Even if you fail, you can take it again. As long as they see that you are trying, they will not give any hassles. The best part with me is that Germany is paying for it. Very cool, indeed...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes, you DO need to pass A-1. I am an American, married to a German. It is required for residency. I am currently taking the course. A-1 is all that is required for language, plus an Integration course, which is part of the program. Germany gives plenty of time to complete it. Even if you fail, you can take it again. As long as they see that you are trying, they will not give any hassles. The best part with me is that Germany is paying for it. Very cool, indeed...

Well, depends on residency and which office. I got a 5-year resident visa with permission to work and was never even told about an A1 requirement. I'm an American citizen married to an EU (non-German) citizen who works in Berlin.

Mind you, I've been taking classes on my own since November, so I could pass the A1 if they required it. But I was never required to prove any of this, so I'm guessing what someone mentioned earlier is more-or-less true: since I am from the U.S. I technically don't/didn't need to prove A1 level.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Well, depends on residency and which office. I got a 5-year resident visa with permission to work and was never even told about an A1 requirement. I'm an American citizen married to an EU (non-German) citizen who works in Berlin.

Mind you, I've been taking classes on my own since November, so I could pass the A1 if they required it. But I was never required to prove any of this, so I'm guessing what someone mentioned earlier is more-or-less true: since I am from the U.S. I technically don't/didn't need to prove A1 level.

Yes, because you are not married to a German citizen, and you have work already. I assume you have full-time job, which is the core reason for your permit. However, the laws have changed recently, and they also do not tell you at first. This is something you must do on your own, go to Immigration Office, I mean. My post was for the one I responded to as 'multi-quote', who is married to a German citizen. This much I do know as fact. As for you, I think you may also have an exemption grandfathered in from before the law changed.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm an American citizen married to an EU (non-German) citizen who works in Berlin.

Yes, but EU citizens and their spouses do not even fall under the AufenthG and by EU law Germany is not allowed to force EU citizens and their family members to take the integration course (unless they are receiving certain government benefits).

It also makes a huge difference why a foreigner is here and if they have a dependent permit, whether their spouse is a German, EU, or thrid country national. For example, spouses of German citizens generally always have to have A1 for the FZF (it is just that citizens of some countries can complete it after they arrive).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm a Canadian, married to a German. I have been consistently told that my German is good enough to exempt me from needing to give any documented proof of German proficiency. Beamte are able to make such a decision for certain passport holders based on their "gut feel" after speaking with them.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

They spoke with you, so they gave proof themselves. They already put documented proof in the system. This is why you didn't need proof on paper yourself, because you satified them during your evaluation.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes, because you are not married to a German citizen, and you have work already. I assume you have full-time job, which is the core reason for your permit. However, the laws have changed recently, and they also do not tell you at first. This is something you must do on your own, go to Immigration Office, I mean. My post was for the one I responded to as 'multi-quote', who is married to a German citizen. This much I do know as fact. As for you, I think you may also have an exemption grandfathered in from before the law changed.

I don't have work already; I was given permission to work, however, with no hassle and without asking for it. (This surprised me, actually.) I received my (first ever) 5-year visa in mid-February.

Yes, but EU citizens and their spouses do not even fall under the AufenthG and by EU law Germany is not allowed to force EU citizens and their family members to take the integration course (unless they are receiving certain government benefits).

It also makes a huge difference why a foreigner is here and if they have a dependent permit, whether their spouse is a German, EU, or thrid country national. For example, spouses of German citizens generally always have to have A1 for the FZF (it is just that citizens of some countries can complete it after they arrive).

This was a dependent permit, although since he's an EU citizen but not German I guess it's the first thing you mentioned. I didn't ask for any government benefits.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now