Registration of self-employed person@home address

21 posts in this topic

Posted

Hello,

 

I seek some advice with this purely theoretically-hypothetical situation :-)

 

If you've been asked by a friend or family to officially register that person at KVR at your German home address - what would you consider as connected risks, given that person asking has been known for some adventurous form of business?

 

In case of any troubles with Finanzamt or otherwise - what are the risks (if any) to other people registered and living at the same household?

 

Many thanks for any thoughts.

 

Loewenherz

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Posted

Hi,

thanks for the answer!

 

The reason for re-registration is that from practical point of view the person asking does not need to keep a flat in Germany - he is working all over the country on contracts, and anyway has to rent a place where he is working. Paying 2 rents a month (one for the permanent flat and one where he's contracting) hurts.

 

Yet this person needs permanent German address to be able to continue what he is doing - i.e. to register his "sebständinge Tätigkeit" in Germany. Hence this asking.

 

Can Finanzamt really give troubles to people living living at the same address as the "guilty one" - if it ever came to a crunch for this other person's business?

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Posted

He can simply use his rental address, surely? That is "permanent" is Germany and plenty of self-employed people move around (don't let him suggest otherwise). Or some basic space of his own.

 

Really, why are you asking this? Person with dodgy business past wants to use your address and freeload off you. What do you consider to be a red flag, then? History of arson or something also required before you start to worry?

 

Also, if he's that dodgy. it's not just Finanzamt who may be interested in "popping round", of course.

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Posted

But that's the problem - you see, he can keep his flat, of course and use his address, but that means he'll be paying 700+ Euro pro month for a flat he doesn't use (flat is in Munich and he's contracting all over Germany - last time he was working in Munich probably ca 3 years ago). That rent is additional to what he has to pay for staying in Germany at the place where he's got contract.

 

Of course this person is not dodgy! If it was so I would not need to ask any questions. And there is no risk of having this person in a flat (which mostly wouldn't be the case anyway - see above). But he's very ambitious and has had ideas in the past which really went wrong.

 

I'm really interested in the legal implications of registering another person - and with that also this person's business (sebständige Tätigkeit) at other people's address. If person A is registered at person's B address, and person A gets into troubles with Finanzamt or other authorities - what can the authorities do to person B?

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Posted

Why doesn’t he just register his business at his accountant's or lawyer's address and then just change his residential address every time he moves?

 

To answer your question, if A was never living at B's address, and B lied to the Meldebehörde, B could have a problem

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Posted

Engelchen - thanks for the suggestion!

Although registering residential address every time he moves might be tricky - sometimes he stays at hotels, sometimes the stay is very short.

 

Regarding this:

 

To answer your question, if A was never living at B's address, and B lied to the Meldebehörde, B could have a problem

 

That I'm not sure about. Right now person A is registered at a address where he doesn't live, so it's surely just the same as being registered at another address where he doesn't live?

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Posted

Nevermind.

 

What does your gut tell you?and why doesn't he sublet to recoup his losses?

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Posted

"Adventurous form of business?" You mean like skydiving and white water rafting packages, that kind of thing?

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Posted

Since he needs a legal residence in any case (see below) and paying 700 euros for rent is a lot, why does't he look for a really cheap one room flat or room in a WG perhaps close to where you live so that you can keep an eye out for mail and other things. At best he should talk with a tax advisor or lawyer who might be able to tell him which locale (city and or state) is advantageous for travel and insurance costs which might be cheaper or even tax deductible. As far as staying at a hotel, it's required to register when staying for long periods (in Berlin for example over 60 days — see: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meldeschein )

 

 

Wikipedia: Gesetzlich ist (je nach Bundesland) das Erfordernis eines Meldescheins bei jeden Aufenthalten vorgeschrieben; bei längeren Aufenthalten (z. B. in Berlin über zwei Monate) muss der Gast sich bei der Meldebehörde direkt anmelden.

If he is self-employed and has a Gewerbeschein, he is required to fill out a change of information form each time when he moves. There is a fee involved and it sometimes means a new tax number and perhaps change of IHK when moving from city to city or state to state. Therfore it's in his best interest to have a steady permanent address. If he is renting apartments in the area where he is working at present he is going to have to register it as a second domicile and that sometimes involved a second domicile tax.

 

It sounds complicated and I think he should get professional advice about how best to proceed.

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Posted

if he does not pay his taxes and the tax authorities ring at your door with their own "gerichtsvollzieher" it is you who has to prove for every item in the apartment that it does belong to you and not him. Not the other way around. So, there is already a major legal risk for you.

The same applies if his business is in difficulties (and it seems that it already was so in the past, right) and other creditors line up with a Gerichtvollzieher at your doorstep.

 

On the other hand there are business parks in abundance here in Munich or elsewhere where you can rent a post-box and some business adress with all kinds of services... why does he not use these kinda services instead. Or, if it must be an apartment or anything like that, find a stupid little one-room place far outside Munich (maybe close to the airport or autobahn) and rent it for far less money than they 700 EURp.m. you mention above. There are tons of legally far better options out there which don't involve you.

 

Cheerio

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Posted

kiil and starshollow - many thanks for the info!

I see I'll have to consider and reconsider.. and most likely just help him to find another, cheaper address :ph34r:

 

Thanks,

LH

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Posted

If you have a spare room you can sublet it to him, just make sure he is paying for it and no one else is using that room. If that is a problem, don't do it. If he is working all over Germany he does not need a flat in Munich, he might as well get a cheap place elsewhere.

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Posted

Just a quick update.

 

if you want to avoid a

 

 

Gerichtvollzieher at your doorstep.

 

don't register anybody at your home address. I didn't and still got involved enough to had to let debt collector in and explain to him my relationship with the person in debt.

 

So yes, be warned - probably

 

 

There’s no friendship in business!

 

Thanks again for all advice.

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Posted

 

Just a quick update.

 

if you want to avoid a

 

don't register anybody at your home address. I didn't and still got involved enough to had to let debt collector in and explain to him my relationship with the person in debt.

 

So yes, be warned - probably

 

Thanks again for all advice.

 

So I take your "friend" then went on and registered with the authorities using your address without your consent?!

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Posted

 

So I take your "friend" then went on and registered with the authorities using your address without your consent?!

 

No, there was no registration - only using my address as correspondence address. Unfortunately that was already too much for my comfort :(

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Posted

The GEZ will be round as well for the business radio and computer fee next year.

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Posted

No, no GEZ as no registration - he only used my address.

(And quite OT - next year we are all gonna pay per household, don't think the people who register business at home pay twice.. please correct me if I'm wrong..)

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Posted

Self-employed / freelancer

 

numbers self-employed or freelancers who work at home, an apartment for their contribution to a broadcast, is covered with it the permanent establishment in the apartment. They have to pay no separate post. Be the only result of the contribution for vehicles used for operations: EUR 5.99 per month per vehicle.

 

See you pay no extra just 5.99 for your car need the inspectors after all "can I look in your garage oh why not"

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