How long to arrange health insurance/a scan?

35 posts in this topic

Posted

Hello,

 

Thanks for reading my first ever post here, and for maybe helping me out with some of your wisdom/experience...

 

My circumstances are that I'll be moving from the UK to Germany in a couple of months time, which means I'll be having the first few months of my ante-natal care in the UK and then have the last few months/giving birth bit (hopefully!) in Germany. From speaking to NHS and HMRC people in the UK, I'm assured that, on the basis of my NI contributions, I'll be covered for healthcare in Germany as an insured national would be for about 2 years (as long as I'm not working). As I understand it, I'll have a form S1 (used to be called E101 I think) for general healthcare and an S2 (again, I think this used to be known as E112) specifically to cover the maternity bits. From reading the TT forums (which have been very helpful, so thank you to everyone who posts) I think I need to take these forms to AOK, and will then be covered. (I hope this is all right, but please correct me if anything sounds wrong - I'd definitely rather know before I make the leap to Germany.)

 

So my basic question is - how long should I allow between arriving in Germany, getting the forms processed, and being able to go to a doctors and arrange a 28 week scan?

 

I had originally planned to move to Germany at around 25 weeks pregnant - but I'm assuming that it will take longer than the two and a half week window I have between the planned arrival and the need for a scan. Does this mirror others' experience?

 

I currently have this scan scheduled in the UK, so I could stay in the UK for it and then move to Germany a little later than originally planned. Alternatively, as I'm visiting Germany quite often at the moment anyway (my partner lives in Germany) does anyone know whether it would be possible to see a doctor just using my EHIC, and arrange the 28 week scan well in advance through that? Or, could I arrange the scan in advance using the S2, as that is specifically about planned care (so, unlike the S1, I could use it while I'm still resident in the UK)?

 

Any insights would be very welcome. I've had a good look through the forums and not seen answers to these particular questions (and the NHS/HMRC folk in Newcastle couldn't tell me much about the specifics in Germany, understandably enough).

 

Thanks very much.

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Posted

if you become a legal resident here in Germany you would have to join a German (public) health insurance, too. The E101 is normally used for employees who are seconded to GErmany thru their employer and allows exemption from the Germany system or for self-employed person with the same goal/reason.

The NHS website states it quite clearly that once you have moved your main/permanent residence outside the UK, the NHS can under normal circumstance not cover you anymore.

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/movingabroad/Pages/Livingabroad.aspx

At the same time the German laws require all residents to have German health insurance, so in my professional opinion and unless there is a special loophole for you I do not know about in the EU regulations, you need to switch to German public insurance within after 1 month upon finally taking up your main residence here. Only if you continue to move to and thro between UK and Germany and keep your main residence in the UK would you be still covered by the NHS.

If you ask the NHS for a E104 form to show that you have been continously covered until now by them, every public German insurance will accept you and cover of course pregnancy and childbirth according to German rules/laws in full. It is just that - if you are entirely without income - that you have to pay around 140 EUR per month for the min contributons.

 

Cheerio

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Posted

Sorry, just did some more background checking (should have done so before I wrote the above, silly me :rolleyes: ) because we as independent advisor/broker usually deal with employees and self-employed persons plus their family and your case is a bit below our radar screen, so to say.

 

It DOES say on the NHS website elsewhere that if you only LIVE in another EU country and do not work, you might be eligible for 2 1/2 years of coverage thru the NHS(administered by a German public health insurance) and in order to find out, you'll have to apply for the former E106 (now S1) form - you kinda thru me off the course when you mentioned the E101 because that is indeed only for employees and self-employed.

I am not entirely sure if this somehow clashes with loca, German rules and regulations, though. I'll contact some people at public insurances tomorrow to find out, now it is already to late in the day.

 

Sorry again, will try to make good with 100% correct information in my next contri...

 

Cheerio

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Posted

Hi Starshollow,

 

Many thanks for the information - that's very helpful. As you say, the NHS does say that a Brit living but not working in the EU can get some coverage on the basis of their previous National Insurance contributions - I'm hoping that this does turn out to be consistent with the rules in Germany too, so thanks very much indeed for the offer to check it out - that is really kind of you and very much appreciated. I'm hoping you won't find any problems, but if there are problems, far better that I should know now - it gives me the option to keep my UK residency rather than move full-time to Germany.

 

 

I'm currently in ongoing communication with the UK NHS and HMRC (Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs - which is the part of government that collects the National Insurance contributions that theoretically fund the NHS) to try to get clarity about the S1 form (or forms) that I may need. I'll put down here the information that I have at the moment and update it later if/when I get clearer/better information, in case it's helpful to anyone else in similar circumstances in the future.

 

Health warning: this is long and tedious and solely about the British system - but may be useful for someone one day...

 

As far as I understand it now, as long as you continue to pay compulsory UK NI, then HMRC (and not the NHS) is responsible for issuing your S1 form, so you should apply to the HMRC for it. Under these circumstances you're exempt from having to pay into the German insurance system as you are already paying into the NHS (ie the UK public insurance system). The link with the old E101 form is that this form was about people who were living in Germany but paying UK NI (typically, I think, people who are seconded or self-employed). People getting maternity pay from a UK employer while living in Germany will also be in the situation of living in Germany but paying compulsory UK NI. It's currently unclear to me whether what matters (in terms of whether the S1 comes from HMRC or NHS) is your employment status per se, or your status as regards compulsory NI contributions. This is one of the things on which I'm currently seeking clarity from HMRC - can't find anything that covers my exact situation online and have had slightly contradictory information from NHS and HMRC on the phone about this.

 

If you are living in the EU and do not pay NI, but are not working, then, as above, you may be eligible for some time-limited NHS cover, on the same basis as an insured national of that country. This is contingent on your previous NI contributions. See http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/movingabroad/Pages/Livingabroad.aspx under "Healthcare provided before your state pension is payable"

 

 

As I say, I've so far had some slightly contradictory information from NHS and HMRC about some of this, so this reflects my current understanding - very happy to be corrected if someone has better knowledge.

 

(My own situation is complex, as I will initially be paying NI and then stop, so I may need an S1 issued by HMRC while I'm still getting maternity pay [unless it turns out that the HMRC deal solely with secondees/self-employed people] and then an S1 issued by the NHS once my maternity pay finishes. FWIW, the people I spoke to in HMRS and NHS referred to these as the "worker's S1" and the "residual S1" respectively. I've not found mention of either of these online, so I think these are probably informal titles, but possibly quite helpful to have distinct labels to use. I'm also seeking both "planned care" [ie giving birth], which seems to require a form S2. This seems unambigously to be NHS territory however, so this should be a little more straightforward. See http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/plannedtreatment/Pages/Givingbirth.aspx )

 

Of course, the "residual S1" stuff is all a bit irrelevant if it turns out that this is incompatable with German rules!

 

Cheers all!

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Posted

Very useful post, Cheesecake! Thanks!

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Posted

An update, as promised, in case it's useful to anyone in a similar situation in future:

 

I heard back from a very helpful lady in the NHS overseas healthcare team. She advised that, as I'll be paying UK NI until next spring (while I'm on paid maternity leave from my UK employer and therefore paying NI) I should remain a UK resident (which is possible as I'll have been in the UK for most of the tax year, as well as paying tax/NI there) and should

- use form S2 for maternity-related healthcare (this was formerly called form E112)

- use an EHIC for all other care (this was formerly called form E111).

 

They advised that, after I stop being paid in the UK (and am therefore no longer paying NI), I should move my residence to Germany, and at this stage I should speak to the NHS about a form S1. This will entitle me to a couple of years of insurance based on my previous contributions. So their advice means that I'll not be worrying about the "worker's S1" but only the "residual S1", and I expect to be dealing only with the NHS and not the HMRC.

 

So, I got my S2, and arrived in Germany a couple of days ago. The instructions on the S2 are pretty short, but point you to this website http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/social-security-directory/welcome.seam?langId=en

to find the institution that will process your S2.

 

AOK was on the list, so off I went. At first, they said that the S2 was the same as the EHIC, and I should just give it directly to the doctor. I tried to say that AOK was on the list of institutions, and I thought I needed something from them to show the doctor, but they were clear that this was not the case. So, off to the doctor's, where the receptionist said I needed to speak to AOK first. When I told her that I had done, and that they had sent me directly to the doctor, she very kindly spoke to and faxed AOK with my S2, and then spoke to them again, and then told me I did need to go back to AOK again, and get a purple form. So, back to AOK.

 

I'd stupidly forgotten to get the name of the person she'd spoken to (a lesson for next time!) so had to go through the story again - was initially told the same as before - i.e. to go directly to the doctors - but this time I could say I already had, and the AOK people then called the doctor's to confirm what exactly they needed. I don't think that the AOK people had seen an S2 before (and didn't seem familiar with its predecessor, the E112) so it was all pretty confusing for everyone, and my lousy German skills certainly didn't help - but everyone was very helpful and patient.

 

After quite a lot more discussion between up to 4 AOK staff (most of which was well beyond my comprehension - my German is lousy, although improving by the day) and being asked to go away and come back in an hour, I *think* I have now managed to swap my S2 for an AOK form that asks the doctor to bill AOK for pregnancy/birth-related stuff.

 

I *think*. (It's not a purple form, but a white form with purple writing - I'm hoping this is close enough...)

 

Back off to the doctor's for an appointment tomorrow, so I shall find out!

 

Not sure if there are many lessons to be drawn from this - even with excellent German, I don't think I'd have had the confidence to insist I needed something from AOK to take to the doctor - the S2 form is pretty short on "how to use this form" type instructions, which I guess is understandable given that it's presumably designed to be used in all member states, and the process will be different in each - but hope this may help others know what to expect.

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Posted

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

HELP

 

My partner and I (unmarried) are expecting a baby in around 4 weeks. I have been offered a job near munich that includes health insurance for me, not her because we are unmarried.

 

She will not be working upon our arrival, how does this work with the German health system?

 

Do we need to pay private? how much can this be? will insurance companies take her on because birth is so near?

 

Will she be entitled to any financial assistance because she is not working?

 

Any advice is good advice.

 

Thanks

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Posted

if you both are coming over from the UK and thus out of the British NHS, just take your time to read what has been written above by Cheesecake, as there you find all the info you need to learn what documents your partner needs to get her NHS insurance coerage extended for the time of pregnancy/delivery here in Germany. Because - in order to answer one of your other questions - no, a private German health nsurance would not accept her in until the baby is born. She might, on the other hand, even be eligble - in contrast to Cheesecake - to enter into the German public system right away, based on so-called No. 13-rule and with a monthly contribution of only around 148 EUR/month.

 

Not sure if she is entitled to any financial support here in Germany. If she lives together with you and you have income, HARTZ IV is certainly out of the question as your income would be counted for the entire household AFAIK. I can't think of anything else, but others here on TT are more knowlegable to this regards than I...

 

For yourself I would strongly recommend getting in touch with an independent insurance advisor upon setting foot into Germany to make sure that your main risks are covered for the family. With a partner who has no personal income right now and a baby to be born, you should set up a term life insurance which in case of your death allows your partner and baby to survive for a couple of years financially and you should also think about some serious income protection against long-term disablity thru accidents or, more likely from a statistical point of view, illness. Should something serious happen to you the whole family might be in financial jeopardy after a few month and this is one risk not to neglect...

 

Cheerio

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Posted

Starshollow - Thanks for your post.

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Posted

Hi - just a quick update on the purple form I mentioned: this is an Abrechnungsschein, in my case marked with "nur fuer Gerburtshilfe/Schwangerschatfshilfe" and it looks like I need one per healthcare provider - i.e. one for the gyn/obst, one for the midwife, one for the hospital etc. So, if anyone else is doing this, then I'd recommend asking for multiple copies of the form to avoid having to go back to AOK repeatedly. I had no problems with the gyn/obst accepting the form (I'd advise anyone from the UK to have search on this forum to know what to expect from this, as it's a bit different) have yet to find a Hebamme/hospital to try the form with.

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Posted

Hello,

Another quick update for anyone who comes across this..

 

First, a clarification of something I think I got something a bit wrong in my first post.

 

My understanding is that the S1/S2 distinction isn't non-maternity/maternity care, but resident/visitor care. And therefore the S1 should be absolutely fine for maternity care.

 

To expand, the S2 is for planned care (which could be maternity care or for a planned operation or whatever) when visiting another European country - it's the equivalent of the EHIC (formerly E111) but is for planned treatment, whereas the EHIC is supposed to cover accidents and getting ill when you visit abroad.

 

The S1 gives cover when you move from the UK to another European country - i.e. when you become resident in another European country outside your own rather than just visiting it. It should give cover equivalent to that an insured national has, so that includes maternity care.

 

 

Second, more detail on using the purple forms that you get from AOK if you're on the S2 - it's been a bit random in that my Frauenarzt has just wanted one to cover all the visits (so far at least) whereas the specialist I was seeing wanted one for each visit. So I'd definitely recommend asking for a few of them when you first go. When I went back to AOK for replenishments, a chap there said that this form couldn't be used for the midwife (my German was not up to trying to understand why) and that instead I should pay the midwife myself and then go back to AOK with the receipts to be reimbursed. However, my midwife thought this sounded odd, and (very kindly) spent 20 minutes talking to various people at AOK, and eventually established that the same form was fine for her, and I didn't have to pay upfront. (The AOK people say the same form is to be used at the hospital - I hope to be doing that pretty soon now...)

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Posted

Hello Cheesecake,

 

Me nad my wife have got similar situation now.

She is 15th week pregnant. Due date is about end of November. We plan to go to Germany about second half of August. I understand that if we will give S2 form to AOK they will give us "purpule" form which secure my wife till giving birth. What will hapen afterwards?? She is start maternity leave from September, so will she be insured for next 12 months? What about the baby? Is baby will be insured as well?

 

You say there is "nur fuer Gerburtshilfe/Schwangerschatfshilfe" marked. Is it mean that this is only to giving birth? What if baby will need some vaccination? Will we need some other form to show in AOK?

 

Regards

Mikey

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Posted

Hello - congratulations to you and your wife!

 

The S2 is limited to (as I recall) 15 weeks after the birth. After that, coverage for your wife will be dependent on her previous NI contributions - once she has stopped making NI payments, she can get a residual S1:

 

"If you move to an EEA country to live but not work and don't receive a UK benefit, you may be eligible for up to two-and-a-half years of state healthcare, paid for by the UK.

 

You will need to apply for form S1 (or form E106 if you are moving to Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland) with the Overseas Healthcare Team (Newcastle). You also need to prove that you have worked in the UK and paid National Insurance contributions up to three years before your departure.

 

For further advice, contact the Overseas Healthcare Team (Newcastle):

 

Overseas Healthcare Team (Newcastle)

Room TC001

Tyneview Park

Whitley Road

Newcastle upon Tyne

NE98 1BA

 

Phone 0191 218 1999 (Monday to Friday 8am-5pm).

 

The S1 (or E106) will entitle you to treatment on the same basis as a resident of the country you are moving to. This may mean that you have to make a patient contribution toward the cost of your care.

 

When the cover on the S1 (or E106) expires, you cannot get any further medical cover from the UK until you receive a UK state pension. It is up to the country’s authorities to decided whether you are eligible to join their healthcare scheme.

 

You will also be entitled to a UK-issued EHIC, allowing you to visit other EEA countries besides the one you are a resident with."

- from http://www.nhs.uk/NH...vingabroad.aspx under "Healthcare provided before your state pension is payable"

 

However, if she is receiving maternity pay after the 15 weeks is up, and is therefore making NI contributions, I think she won't be able to get a residual S1.

 

This is my current situation. I haven't got good news on this I'm afraid - the Overseas Healthcare Team Newcastle team tell me I need to speak to HMRC to get an S1, and HMRC tell me that I need to speak to the Overseas Healthcare Team to get an S1. Nothing came of many calls to both - I haven't had coverage from the NHS since 15 weeks after the birth. I'm told that once my pay stops I can then apply to the Overseas Healthcare Team Newcastle people for the residual S1. Sorry. It seems to be a complete mess - I suggest you call them anyway, as it seemed a muddle and info they gave me changed from day to day.

 

Re coverage for the baby from the S2 - the baby is in theory covered, according to Overseas Healthcare Team - but AOK wouldn't accept the S2 for the baby as it had only my name and not the baby's name on it. After several calls, Overseas Healthcare Team issued an EHIC for the babys first injections instead.

 

Hope that helps, and best wishes for happy and healthy pregnancy and new arrival.

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Posted

majkelp: after delivery your wife can get co-insured for free with you if you are living/working in Germany and have public insurance. If you have private health insurance in Germany, it may get a bit more complicated - thus you should get professional advice on this.

 

Cheerio

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Posted

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hi everbody,

 

I am an EU citizen and plan to give birth and spend maternity leave in Hamburg and will probably stay here for a few more years, since my husband has a 3 year contract here. I will move to Hamburg in mid July. I have a few questions regarding the health insurance. I would appreciate greatly if anybody who has gone through the same situation would share their experience with me:-)

 

While being on maternity leave I will be insured by my home country national health sistem. My national health provider advised me to get an EHIC card and they will issue an E 112 form (now S2 form). I am not sure what is the difference between this form and E106 form (now S1 form). Has anybody had any experience with E112 form or E106 form when giving birth in Hamburg while being insured by their country (EU member).

 

My due date is in mid September, we rented an apartment in Bahrenfeld. If there's any mum to be (or already a mum:-))) in that area, I would be happy to meet you.

 

Thank you in advance for your answers.

 

Tina

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Posted

I thought I'd post on this thread rather than start a new one, even though I'm not pregnant!

 

I've lived in the UK for 11 years, paid Class 2 NI contributions etc. The last six months I've been moving back and forth between UK and Germany organising my move back here. My husband is in a German care home. I'm self-employed but recently earning very little (not enough to pay tax) due to caring for my husband. I'm in the NHS and have a valid EHIC. My children live in the UK and my official address in the UK is with my daughter. I own a flat there but it is rented out. I am a German citizen (nationalised.)

 

I'm starting a "versicherungspflightige" job in Germany from 1st July so my move can finally be considered permanent. Up to now I simply considered that once I get a job I can go to one of the public Krankenkassen and there will be no problem, but the talk about S1 in the posts above got me a little confused. Is there anything else I need to get from the UK? I can easily hop over before the job starts if there's any paperwork I need!

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Posted

 

I'm starting a "versicherungspflightige" job in Germany from 1st July so my move can finally be considered permanent. Up to now I simply considered that once I get a job I can go to one of the public Krankenkassen and there will be no problem, but the talk about S1 in the posts above got me a little confused. Is there anything else I need to get from the UK? I can easily hop over before the job starts if there's any paperwork I need!

 

I think the fact to keep in mind here is that you are over 55 years old, and therefore you won't get into German public health insurance automatically by becoming an employee, like people under 55 do.

 

I'm sure our insurance experts will chime in with the exact procedure, but I suspect you will have to bring some proof from the NHS to show that you have had British public health insurance all along in order to be accepted into German public health insurance despite your age.

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Posted

Thank you; I didn't know that. So I did a search and saw that you are right with the age limit.

 

However, on this page, I found the following paragraoh:

 

 

Seit dem Jahr 2007 besteht eine Versicherungspflicht für alle Personen, die zuletzt irgendwann einmal in einer Gesetzlichen Krankenkasse versichert waren. Diese müssen sich rückwirkend zum 01.04.2007 (bzw. bei Rückzug aus dem Ausland zum Tag der Rückkehr) in einer Gesetzlichen Krankenkasse ihrer Wahl versichern. Jede Kasse muß diese Personen aufnehmen - unabhängig von Alter und Gesundheitszustand.

 

Ab dem 01.01.2009 gilt die Krankenversicherungspflicht auch für alle jene, die zuletzt irgendwann einmal privat versichert waren. Dazu müssen die Privaten Krankenversicherungen einen sogenannten “Basistarif” anbieten, in dem alle entsprechenden Personen unabhängig von ihrem Gesundheitszustand aufgenommen werden müssen.

I was indeed once in the GKK -- from 2001 till 2003, as a member of the Kuenstlersozialkasse. I was in the Barmer.

 

I was also once in the PKK, under a Beamtentarif.

It's all so complicated -- hopefully one of the experts will chime in soon!

 

ANd to think that sorting out this stuff will actually be my job in future -- going to work in the Sozialdienst in a hopsital!!!

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Posted

...and another question rears its head. I am eligible for 70% Beihilfe through my husband. So I have the option to take out 30% private.

Is it actually an option, or MUST I go that way? And if I do, would my employer contribute anything towards the Beitrag, which at my age is pretty high (about 300 a month). Thanks for any help!

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