Definition of "Warmmiete"

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Posted

Hello can someone please tell me what is included in Warmmiete?

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Posted

heating, water, garbage collection

http://www.toytowngermany.com/search/?q=warmmiete&logic=and&type=full&l=

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Posted

Heating whole year or winter period only? Do you get the refund or pay more at the end of the year if the actual usage is less or more?

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Posted

Heating isn't always included it depends on what sort of heating you have. In my old flat it was gas and heating and water I paid directly to Mainova - local gas/electricity company.

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Posted

Warmmiete (AKA “Bruttomiete“ or "Inklusivmiete") includes the basic rent (xx € per square metre), plus costs for rubbish collection, warm and cold water, waste water, heating, lighting of public areas (corridor, stairwell, etc), insurance, cable-TV (if applicable). Costs for electricity and telephone are not included.

It doesn’t matter whether an advance payment for any of the above costs (not including the basic rent) has to be made or not. When reckoned over a 12 month period, the entire amount paid, divided by 12, may not exceed the contractually agreed monthly “Warmmiete”.

The landlord cannot require any additional payment because he underestimated what extra costs the tenant would cause. For example, if the previous tenant showered with cold water, once a week for five minutes, but the new tenant takes three full hot baths a day; the new tenant still cannot be made to pay more than agreed in his/her contract.

If the tenant has grounds to reduce the rent (due to some problem in/on the property for which the landlord is liable) the term “rent” here means the entire Warmmiete, viewed as a whole and not sub-divided as in §1 above. However, the same also applies if the landlord wants to raise the rent.

Most important of all however, before renting any property, first join the local branch of the so-called "Mieterverein" for the area in which you intend to live. They have lots of information brochures and can give you formal legal advice (and representation in court if necessary).

Disputes arising from rental contract are regular topics here on TT and elsewhere. The legal terminology for a non-speaker can be (and usually is) almost impossible to understand. Show the Mieterverein the contract before you sign it, and things should be OK. Never blindly trust any estate agent or future landlord – no matter how friendly they are!

HTH

Disclaimer: The above represents a personal opinion based upon an unqualified interpretation of the facts provided. Seek professional legal advice before taking any action based upon what has been written.

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Posted

My "Warmmiete", the Name is a misnomer does NOT include hot water.

I pay for that as part of my electricity bill.

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Posted

The landlord cannot require any additional payment because he underestimated what extra costs the tenant would cause. For example, if the previous tenant showered with cold water, once a week for five minutes, but the new tenant takes three full hot baths a day; the new tenant still cannot be made to pay more than agreed in his/her contract.

With your monthly rent you make an advance payment for Nebenkosten. Every year you get the Nebenkostenabrechnung for the previous year, a calculation of the actual costs of the Nebenkosten for your house, and your share in it. If you paid more than your share during that year you get money back, if you paid less than your share you pay the difference. In any case your Warmmiete should be adjusted. Problems with the Nebenkostenabrechnung are the majority of problems the Mieterverein is dealing with, one big problem seems to be to identify which costs are shared between tenants, and which are the landlords liability. That is why this:

Most important of all however, before renting any property, first join the local branch of the so-called "Mieterverein" for the area in which you intend to live. They have lots of information brochures and can give you formal legal advice (and representation in court if necessary).

Disputes arising from rental contract are regular topics here on TT and elsewhere. The legal terminology for a non-speaker can be (and usually is) almost impossible to understand. Show the Mieterverein the contract before you sign it, and things should be OK. Never blindly trust any estate agent or future landlord – no matter how friendly they are!

is important. The contracts are hard enough to understand by native speakers.

Disclaimer: The above represents a personal opinion based upon an unqualified interpretation of the facts provided. Seek professional legal advice before taking any action based upon what has been written.

This is true for me, too. I am not a lawyer, just living in rented flats for much of my life, with surprisingly little problems with the landlords so far.

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Posted

I have not understood this.

The landlord said me that everything is included...but in real I have all these measuring machines (for cold water, hot water, and also for heating...very heating unity) and at the end of the year I have to pay the difference...if the warmmiete is not enough...

Obviously I cannot understand the german contract...but also my german collauges had some issues understanding it...

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Posted

What's not to understand? Your Landlord doesn't know how much you will be using, neither do you. So at the end of the year, if you have used up more than you've paid for, you pay the difference...easy.

Your Nebenkosten only amount to a guestimate.

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Posted

re subtitle: that's ancillary you were thinking of

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Posted

In my personal experience, it's never the case that you don't have to pay extra at the end of the year. Sometimes it's a outrageous higher amount, sometimes is just a little bit more.

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Posted

yes...so I think that it is not correct to say "it is included"...can be misunderstanding

do you agree?

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Posted

What you guys are forgetting is that if Maurice is paying *Warm* per contract then there is nothing more or less to pay at the end of the year. That would only be the case if he was paying Kaltmiete+Nebenkostenvorauszahlung, which is more usual. People do talk about Warmmiete being so much when they actually mean Kaltmiete and the current Nebenkosten, but if the Miete is defined in the contract as Warmmiete, then its a flat payment, no adjustments.

'course, water and 'leccy are (almost) always separate.

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Posted

In my personal experience, it's never the case that you don't have to pay extra at the end of the year. Sometimes it's a outrageous higher amount, sometimes is just a little bit more.

So get your landlord to re-calculate your Nebenkostenvorauszahlung to something more realistic. My tenants have had money back for the last few years (not much, but a little).

Don't forget its to YOUR ADVANTAGE if you have to back pay at the end of the year - Your landlord has essentially pre-financed your usage in the form of an interest-free loan.

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Posted

yes...the problem is that they talk about a "flat" warmmiete but then...

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Posted

We had 600 euros back last year and this year they recalculated our nebenkosten at 50 euros less a month. I am very sad to leave the first honest landlord we have ever had.

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Posted

Why do they bother at all to provide you this ESTIMATE at the beginning of the contract???

Sure it'd be better just to tell you how much the kalt cost is and that's it. Any electric, water etc., you pay whatever you use, no need for them and you to go throughh the hassle of the estimate...

By their definition ETIMATES are wrong. In my opinion useless too. Better to do without them.

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Posted

Because then the bill by the end of the year could be several thousands, and who would pay all of that in the meantime? The landlord, but then at the end of the year, you'd get the interest charged on top. Plus, landlords would run the risk of losing out if any tenants did a runner, or were unable to pay at the end of the year.

It would in theory be possible for all the companies charging for heating, etc, to switch to a monthly check of your actual usage and charge you on a monthly basis, but that would involve a lot more work and paperwork, and of course higher cost for you to pay for all that extra work.

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Posted

They give you the estimate because you pay for the ancillary costs in installments. Why do you pay for the ancillary costs in installments? Because it's the law. You don't have a hassle with the estimate, the landlord does.

Unfortunately, many unscrupulous landlords (and scumbags real estate agents) deliberately low-ball the estimate for the ancillary costs, to make the apartment/house seem more affordable than it really is and charge a higher basic rent, because they can get any excess back from you at the end of the year. That's why it's good to know how much such costs usually are (€1.50-€2.50/sqm), so you can spot such deceptive practices. You are also entitled to ask for the last Nebenkostenabrechnung before you sign, instead of taking their word for it.

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Posted

Wait a sec...

are we saying the bills are paid by the landlord to the utilities companies, and you pay the monthly estimates to the landlord, just to set it straight at the end of the year?

If so, this seems weird... why instead not you paying directly your bills to the utility companies??

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Posted

why instead not you paying directly your bills to the utility companies??

Because:

It would in theory be possible for all the companies charging for heating, etc, to switch to a monthly check of your actual usage and charge you on a monthly basis, but that would involve a lot more work and paperwork, and of course higher cost for you to pay for all that extra work.

and because you would then be dealing with a large variety of different companies.

Also, there are some things for which the landlord gets an invoice for the whole building (such as rubbish collection) which are then dividied among all the tenants. It wouldn't be feasible for the rubbish collection company to work out constantly who is living in every building and who not.

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Posted

OK, thanks!

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Posted

Wait a sec...

are we saying the bills are paid by the landlord to the utilities companies, and you pay the monthly estimates to the landlord, just to set it straight at the end of the year?

If you are living in a place with more than one unit, then what usually happens is the management company pays the bills over the year, then invoices the landlord and the landlord invoices the tenant. The reason it cant be monthly is that many costs (heat, some taxes, some utilities) that are involved in running a building, are not invoiced monthly. Also heat usage, aprticularly, is very dependent on the weatherand cant be accurately predicted (nor, of course, can heating fuel prices). It becomes more complicated because some costs can be charged by a landlord to their tenant, some not.

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Posted

OK, I got it, thanks.

I was comparing with renting a house in in UK (I'm not brit, and I rented in other countries, never mind...).

Here neither the agent nor the landlord would bother to "estimate" any utilities. It's up to you to inform the companies providing gas, electric, water, internet, etc etc... and to sort it yourself.

I understand that if it's a flat rather than a house it get different.

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