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Holiday entitlements during 'Probezeit'

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Posted

My boss tells me that I am not entitled to take my 10 days holidays that I have earned since starting in a new post. He says it is company policy. I would like to know from the legal hats out there, has he a leg to stand on? As far as I am concerned they are my holidays and I am entitled to them. HR says I must take them before years end or I will lose them in 2009. Advice please?

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Posted

He has two legs to stand on. Holiday during the Probezeit is usually a no-no, although "kind" employers may be a little flexible...

Edit: not sure about that, mine are good until March the following year. When did you start?

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Posted

It's up to you and your employer. Your employer has no obligation to grant you holiday but in practice most employers realise that if they keep you you will have accrued an impossible amount of holiday in the six months and it's best to let you spread this out.

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Posted

My boss tells me that I am not entitled to take my 10 days holidays that I have earned since starting in a new post. He says it is company policy. I would like to know from the legal hats out there, has he a leg to stand on?

He has two legs to stand on. Holiday during the Probezeit is usually a no-no, although "kind" employers may be a little flexible...

This is true.

HR says I must take them before years end or I will lose them in 2009.

HR has probably informed all employees of the general rule that they are supposed to take their vacation during the calendar year.

The same mail comes each November in our company (except that they say you must have started the vacation by the end of the following March otherwise they expire).

HOWEVER, the same mail also states that for those who joined the company during the second half of the current year that their vacation my be carried over until the end of the following year.

So you will probably find that your HR has a similar process. I suggest you talk to them.

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Posted

The losing holiday if you don't use it stems from accounting rules that force the company to count untaken holidays as an unpaid liability on their accounts and this is why they usually have a general policy of 'use it or lose it'. This policy, however, is up to their discretion and there is no law that says you must lose untaken holiday. Your boss is probably a dick saying you can't take holiday, acutally your rights to take holiday and keep it if you are unable to take it are well protected. You don't say if you're on probezeit or just made an internal move in your company and this does have an impact on your situation.

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Posted

ARAG Legal Insurance info

Nach dem Bundesurlaubsgesetz (BUrlG) haben Mitarbeiter in der Probezeit grundsätzlich erst nach sechs Monaten vollen Anspruch auf den gesamten Urlaub. ARAG Experten weisen jedoch darauf hin, dass diese Regelung nicht bedeutet, dass der Mitarbeiter in der Probezeit gar keinen Anspruch auf Urlaub erwirbt – im Gegenteil: Ihm steht für jeden rechnerisch vollen Monat des Bestehens des Arbeitsverhältnisses ein Zwölftel seines Jahresanspruchs zu. Der Arbeitgeber ist allerdings nicht verpflichtet, diesen so genannten Teilurlaub zu gewähren.

According to Federal Law you are only entitled to your full holidays after six months on probation. ARAG experts emphasize that this does not mean that you do not earn the entitlement - on the contrary, you earn 1/12 of your entitlement for each full month worked. But (and I love this one!), the employer is not obligated to grant the pro rata temporis vacation time.

I am assuming that this non-obligation to grant vacation time applies to your probation time only. Once you have absolved the probation you are entitled to the vacation days "earned", so yes, you should be able to transfer them to 2009. Ask HR to clarify the ambiguous information but don't count on any time off until you've served your six months time.

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Posted

You are entitled to carry over holiday from one year to the next if, and only if, your employer makes it impossible to take it within the year (if you still have days left at the end of the year due to bad planning on your part the employer is NOT obligated to carry these over but may do).

Sarabyrd is right that you accrue the entitlement throughout your probation but the employer is not obligated to let you use this entitled holiday. I am not sure how this fits in with the above, though. The employer is preventing you from taking holiday during probation, which they are entitled to do, but it is the employers fault that you can't take it within the calendar year, so theoretically you should be allowed to carry over your holiday till end of March 2009 or longer by mutual agreement.

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Posted

They can stop you from taking holidays in your Probezeit, but they cannot take the holidays off you. Your holidays will be rolled over to next year if they won't allow you to take them now.

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Posted

According to Federal Law you are only entitled to your full holidays after six months on probation.

Just to make this absolutely clear - Normally you are entitled to your full quota of holiday from Jan 01. every year, ie. with 30 days you could take Jan01-Jan30 off. If you start somewhere new, you only get the full allowance after 6 months and up till then 1/12 per month. If you have 30 days holiday as standard, up to 5 months and 30(31) days you accumulate 2,5 days per month up to a maximum of 15days, from 6 months 1 day you have the full entitlement of 30 days.

ARAG experts emphasize that this does not mean that you do not earn the entitlement - on the contrary, you earn 1/12 of your entitlement for each full month worked. But (and I love this one!), the employer is not obligated to grant the pro rata temporis vacation time.

It can go both ways. I have worked for a few companies where you did not take holiday in the first six months but have also had a bollocking having worked from september and not having planned any holiday by December.

I am assuming that this non-obligation to grant vacation time applies to your probation time only. Once you have absolved the probation you are entitled to the vacation days "earned", so yes, you should be able to transfer them to 2009. Ask HR to clarify the ambiguous information but don't count on any time off until you've served your six months time.

Yes, yes and yes. Also ask if the Boss is correct - Just because he thinks you shouldnt be taking time off doesnt mean HR agrees with him or that it is company policy.

andy M

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Posted

And what if I were to resign before the end of my Probezeit: do I have an entitlement to the 9 days of holiday I have acrued?

Thank you for any advice.

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Posted

so, I have a new question on holiday entitlements...

I start a new job on 15.2.2013 & it's 20 hours a week. I've booked holiday over Easter & I asked during the interview & my boss said that would be fine. That would be 6 work days, possibly I could travel back earlier.

Now my parents have called me & want to come for a visit for 3 weeks in July/August. Do you think I should ring (or email) my employer today & ask for the time off or try negotiate something? I talked to my parents & we calculated it & I would be asking for 11 work days off, I'd work for a couple of days before we went on holiday to the UK.

So I want a total of 17 days off before the first 6 months! oh dear! not sure what to do?! Tell my parents not to come?! (but they already booked ferry & tickets to military tattoo in Scotland! -travel agent told them to book asap, not sure if flights are paid for yet)

I thought I could ask for non paid leave? Also I thought I could offer during August (holiday season) to work 40 hours so that 2 people can have time off at the same time.

Any thoughts??!!

ps: I haven't signed my contract yet, do that next week.

TIA!! :)

pps: I haven't seen my parents in 2 years.

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Posted

How many days will you work a week (are the 20 hours spread over 5 days)? Will there be overtime, enabling you to build up extra time? Are you prepared to compromise (pull out of your Easter trip and ask the boss to swap that for the July/August one; only take part of the time when your parents are here)?

You are certainly not entitled to the holiday, and whether you mention it now or at the time, you will need to be aware that it *may* cost you the job. It will depend entirely on how the boss decides to play it.

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Yes, I will be working 5 days a week, 4 hours a day. I don't think there will be any over time?. I thought about shortening the Easter trip so I don't have any work days off. My parents are here for 23 days, so we thought about going on holiday for 17 days, so then I'd ask for 11 days off.

I thought being honest is the best thing, so is ringing the best bet & then sending an email? or should I ask to set up a meeting with my boss? really don't know what to do!

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Posted

I can't give you any advice on how to do it, because I personally wouldn't do it. I would quite honestly expect it to come over very, very badly.

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ugh, my silly parents! they all wanted it to be a surprise...just got told about it a few days ago & then yesterday I was like, oh man my new job!

I'll talk to my husband (German), see what he says!

Should still work out for my Easter holiday though.

thanx heaps!

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Posted

ugh, my silly parents! they all wanted it to be a surprise...

Some relatives from the wife wanted to surprised her and traveled to Europe just to find out we were all back in her country for holidays. Luckily they had some friends in Netherlands.

P.S., I would just tell the sad story to the future boss and ask him if is possible to take those days or less days or working overtime the weeks before or anything, but at the same time saying that if it is not possible to take holidays you will tell your parents to cancel the trip.

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Posted

I have recently learned to the cost of 1200 that international travel and impromptu gifts/surprises do not mix.

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Posted

You know it has nothing to do with probezeit. While you do have rights, when you get vacation is not one of them. You have colleagues that might have already planned vacation, your company might not allow vacations for certain weeks of a year. There are a lot of factors that go into vacation and today you don't know any of them. Take a deep breath. Start your new job and talk with your new co-workers. June July and even August are awhile away. A lot can happen, including you might not be in your new job in addition to your parents might not be able to come along with you have a new boss. I work in HR and when during an interview someone tells me about their years vacation, it's not a plus. Then again good for you for leering him know about the vacation next month, that was the right thing to do. I also told my boss about my month long trip to the US before I started. But the weekend in Rome, I just waited till the first weeks were over and then asked the girl in the next office over lunch how these things were done.

I went to the US and Rome and did everything else I wanted to that first year.

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Posted

great thanx for the responses!! German husband said to wait until I see my boss. Then I can ask & if she says no then all holiday plans will be cancelled. Will keep you updated.

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Posted

update!

I heard from my boss today & she said that I can't take the Easter holiday, but my summer holiday has been genehmigt! So can tell mum & dad the good news tonight :D

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Posted

[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hello,

I recently got fired during my probation period, after a bit more than 3 months. My contract says that I was supposed to have 2 days holidays per month (I didn't take any). Can I get paid for these days (6 in total)?

On the letter I signed, there was something like:

"Furthermore, you shall be irrevocably discharged of the exercise of your occupational activity by the termination date with immediate effect. Continuous payment of your salary will be ensured and any outstanding vacation entitlement will be accounted."

It seems to me that it gave me the right to get paid for this holidays, but it wasn't the case so I'd like to know more.

Anyone to help me on this topic?

Thanks a lot!

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Posted

It sounds like they relieved you of your duties, effective immediately, but plan to continue paying you until the end of the notice period, plus your earned pro rata vacation entitlement.

One thing you should be prepared for, though, is that your tax and social insurance contribution deductions for your last paycheck will be higher than usual, because the accrued vacation pay will be paid with your final salary, which will bump up your tax bracket. It all comes out in the wash by the end of the year, however.

Not to be nosy, but would you like to share the name of your employer? Or what you did to warrant your summary dismissal?

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I'm not really sure about sharing the name of the employer... Only thing I can say is that it's a startup that is not really on the right track. And there is no specific reason for the dismissal, they just downsized the company because they were (and still are from my understanding) in troubles.

The thing is, when I signed the letter, they told me about this 2 weeks "garden leave" and that I could go back home, they would not ask me to stay in their office for these 2 weeks. They never said my holidays will be put there (and I didn't signed anything concerning this).

I'm not sure what their position is, but either they claim that I don't have any holidays because I was working for less than 6 months or they put my holidays during this "garden leave" (which I was not aware).

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